We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Carlos Silva wrote:
Really nice news... i'll keep dreaming that nvidia will do the same.
Wonderfull news... I got this back today from ATI. Looks like someone with some clout there finally gets it.
So I'm about to start porting some biosless init code I received over to Linux. Then work it into linux bios.
I take back everything I said bad about ATI. *grin*
Tell all your OEM buddies that ATI Mobility M1 video chips are about to become LinuxBIOS friendly in the near future.
Sorry for the lengthy delay. There is a lot of detail here. Basically, you can develop code with our documentation, and then release it under GPL - no issues there.
If you want to produce a biosless chip init procedure, you can use the documentation I pointed you to. If you have any questions, feel free to email me about those documents.
-- Richard A. Smith rsmith@bitworks.com
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
that was what am was talking about. i have a nForce2 and i would love to have LinuxBIOS on my PC.... but the only think i can do is w8 :(
We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Carlos Silva wrote:
Really nice news... i'll keep dreaming that nvidia will do the same.
Wonderfull news... I got this back today from ATI. Looks like someone with some clout there finally gets it.
So I'm about to start porting some biosless init code I received over
to
Linux. Then work it into linux bios.
I take back everything I said bad about ATI. *grin*
Tell all your OEM buddies that ATI Mobility M1 video chips are about
to
become LinuxBIOS friendly in the near future.
Sorry for the lengthy delay. There is a lot of detail here.
Basically,
you can develop code with our documentation, and then release it under GPL - no issues there.
If you want to produce a biosless chip init procedure, you can use the documentation I pointed you to. If you have any questions, feel free
to
email me about those documents.
-- Richard A. Smith rsmith@bitworks.com
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
"Hendricks David W." dwh@lanl.gov wrote:
We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Carlos Silva wrote:
Really nice news... i'll keep dreaming that nvidia will do the same.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I can never understand hardware manufacturers being cagey about their specs. I would have thought it would save them a lot of hassle if they *didn't* have to write drivers themselves. If they made the information available with suggestions and worked examples, the software industry would do it all for them.
To forestall one argument, I really don't see anyone being able to reverse engineer the *hardware* from the overall specs.
From what I gather, often times their specs have other companies' IP
buried within them. For example, ATi and their OEMs release a series of cards called "All-In-Wonder" with each new chip. These AIW cards have a ton of extras on them like TV-tuners, hardware media decoders, the works. So for people looking to by a single card to perform multiple tasks rather than buying a Radeon, DXR3, tv tuner, etc, this is a good deal. However, those extras such the TV tuner and media decoder chips aren't necessarily ATi's own design. And for some reason, ATi can't release specs on everything *but* the proprietary chips (And some industry "analysts" call the GPL viral!).
But then again, I have no way of verifying this, and it's a discussion for another BBS :)
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Terry Blunt wrote:
"Hendricks David W." dwh@lanl.gov wrote:
We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Carlos Silva wrote:
Really nice news... i'll keep dreaming that nvidia will do the same.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I can never understand hardware manufacturers being cagey about their specs. I would have thought it would save them a lot of hassle if they *didn't* have to write drivers themselves. If they made the information available with suggestions and worked examples, the software industry would do it all for them.
To forestall one argument, I really don't see anyone being able to reverse engineer the *hardware* from the overall specs.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Terry Blunt wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but I can never understand hardware manufacturers being cagey about their specs. I would have thought it would save them a lot of hassle if they *didn't* have to write drivers themselves.
2 reasons. First, somebody might steal their ideas. Evidently this happens.
The second is really complicated, but works like this. Suppose you create and design feature X into your chipset. You might find, via a lawsuit, that feature X is patented by company Y. I've talked to vendors who would like to open their hardware but are scared to do so for this very reason -- they might have designed a patented feature into their hardware without realizing it.
ron
On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 16:18, Terry Blunt wrote:
"Hendricks David W." dwh@lanl.gov wrote:
We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Carlos Silva wrote:
Really nice news... i'll keep dreaming that nvidia will do the same.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I can never understand hardware manufacturers being cagey about their specs. I would have thought it would save them a lot of hassle if they *didn't* have to write drivers themselves. If they made the information available with suggestions and worked examples, the software industry would do it all for them.
From my previous experience working for some chipset company, there are
reasons not to release the spec.
1. For software guys, if the software can be written by outside parties, most of the people in the software dept. are going to be laid off.
2. For hardware guys, they made bugs too. They need software guys to save their ass. Of course they want as few people know they are stupid as possible.
3. For marketing guys, it is a rule in efficient market theory. The less information avaliable in the market the more profit an insider can make from the market. Why should the company release those inside information to hurt its own profit ?
Ollie
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Hendricks David W. wrote:
We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
We'll have to see how big this all gets. The one good thing about running the BIOS on the board is that linuxbios doesn't get too big, i.e you don't need code in linuxbios to initiate a particular board. The size is the emulator code -- no more. If we put in code for every card, how big will it get? How big is the ATI Radeon code?
I still like this a lot, however. Certainly for boards with ATI glued on this is a huge win.
ron
On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 17:03, ron minnich wrote:
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Hendricks David W. wrote:
We don't need to with nVidia, we can run their VGA BIOS using testbios.
Though in the perfect world, they'd be more forthcoming with specs so that someone can make an LB port for their nForce boards.
We'll have to see how big this all gets. The one good thing about running the BIOS on the board is that linuxbios doesn't get too big, i.e you don't need code in linuxbios to initiate a particular board. The size is the emulator code -- no more. If we put in code for every card, how big will it get? How big is the ATI Radeon code?
I still like this a lot, however. Certainly for boards with ATI glued on this is a huge win.
I have no idea about ATI chips. But from what I have done on SiS chipset, if you do it correctly, that can be made quite small. It is possible smaller than the emulator+VGA BIOS (if you are working on embedded systems, the VGA BIOS takes the space too).
Ollie
-
Carlos Silva -
Hendricks David W. -
Li-Ta Lo -
ron minnich -
Terry Blunt