Hello, I think I am going to name this project the "LPCflasher". So I added up all the stuff I ordered to build it and it only came to $17.87. Yah, that's what I am talking about, a exellent bios development tool for under $20 dollars :-)
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
Hello, I think I am going to name this project the "LPCflasher". So I added up all the stuff I ordered to build it and it only came to $17.87. Yah, that's what I am talking about, a exellent bios development tool for under $20 dollars :-)
So let me get this straight...you're building a tool to flash LPC/FWH using a connection over the parallel port, with the ability to use USB power? This sounds familiar: http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3199 http://willem.org/
On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 00:28:16 -0500, "Corey Osgood" corey.osgood@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org
wrote:
Hello, I think I am going to name this project the "LPCflasher". So I added up all the stuff I ordered to build it and it only came to $17.87. Yah, that's what I am talking about, a exellent bios development tool
for
under $20 dollars :-)
So let me get this straight...you're building a tool to flash LPC/FWH using a connection over the parallel port, with the ability to use USB power? This sounds familiar:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3199
I guess you could compare it to a willem. But this will have the abilty to do so much more than a willem. You will be able to add cables and adapters like the Artecgroup programmable LPC dongle, and flash chips soldered on the board, etc.....
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 00:28:16 -0500, "Corey Osgood" corey.osgood@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org
wrote:
Hello, I think I am going to name this project the "LPCflasher". So I added up all the stuff I ordered to build it and it only came to $17.87. Yah, that's what I am talking about, a exellent bios development tool
for
under $20 dollars :-)
So let me get this straight...you're building a tool to flash LPC/FWH using a connection over the parallel port, with the ability to use USB power? This sounds familiar:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3199
I guess you could compare it to a willem. But this will have the abilty to do so much more than a willem. You will be able to add cables and adapters
Like these? http://www.willem.org/nleprom/index.php?cPath=37&osCsid=c5a11qgisesljhfr...
I'm just trying to figure out if willem might be the way to go. I have one of the dual-power ones, but the only computer I have with a parallel port is a headless linux fileserver. The biggest problem with the willem is that the cost has gone through the roof (mine was around $25 shipped), and no native linux support (wine supposedly works, but I've never been able to get it to). Also, the write speed is, well, less then optimal. A full erase-write-verify cycle, on the box that I set up with windows 98 to test it, took about 3 minutes for a 256k chip, IIRC. But the guys that designed the willem presumably know what they're doing, not to doubt you but can you really do it better, cheaper?
like the Artecgroup programmable LPC dongle, and flash chips soldered on the board, etc.....
Programming flash chips on the board? Sounds interesting, I've got a couple boards kicking around with soldiered on PLCC flash that I'd like to toy with, but I'm too lazy to put sockets on the boards.
-Corey
Anyone know where I could find one of these adapters???
http://www.artecdesign.ee/~martr/dongle-fwh-plcc-cable/P3286279.JPG
On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 10:50:36 -0500, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
Anyone know where I could find one of these adapters???
http://www.artecdesign.ee/~martr/dongle-fwh-plcc-cable/P3286279.JPG
Looks like there is a company Winslow Adaptics that makes some really really cool adapters.
They are based in the UK and Tampa, FL.
I think I will contact them. If I have to get adapters in bulk, would anyone else be interested in purchasing some?
On 08.11.2008 17:19, Joseph Smith wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 10:50:36 -0500, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
Anyone know where I could find one of these adapters???
http://www.artecdesign.ee/~martr/dongle-fwh-plcc-cable/P3286279.JPG
Peter manufactured some of them.
Looks like there is a company Winslow Adaptics that makes some really really cool adapters.
They are based in the UK and Tampa, FL.
I think I will contact them. If I have to get adapters in bulk, would anyone else be interested in purchasing some?
IIRC I dug up a manufacturer with reasonable prices back then. Peter probably has the data on file. No idea whether he still has some adapters left.
Regards, Carl-Daniel
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Anyone know where I could find one of these adapters???
http://www.artecdesign.ee/~martr/dongle-fwh-plcc-cable/P3286279.JPG
Peter manufactured some of them.
Yep, I make an equivalent. My adapter is a board with a 2x5 pin header on top, for the normal dongle cable. Stefan took a photo of it, could I/we get a version of that photo?
IIRC I dug up a manufacturer with reasonable prices back then. Peter probably has the data on file.
You helped me out by finding the swedish distributor for the german manufacturer cab GmbH.
No idea whether he still has some adapters left.
I don't have them in stock (Ron bought the last one) but I can order parts and make more. Let me know if you would like to order one.
//Peter
On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 23:01:35 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Anyone know where I could find one of these adapters???
http://www.artecdesign.ee/~martr/dongle-fwh-plcc-cable/P3286279.JPG
Peter manufactured some of them.
Yep, I make an equivalent. My adapter is a board with a 2x5 pin header on top, for the normal dongle cable. Stefan took a photo of it, could I/we get a version of that photo?
IIRC I dug up a manufacturer with reasonable prices back then. Peter probably has the data on file.
You helped me out by finding the swedish distributor for the german manufacturer cab GmbH.
No idea whether he still has some adapters left.
I don't have them in stock (Ron bought the last one) but I can order parts and make more. Let me know if you would like to order one.
Thanks for the offer Peter. I'm waiting to hear back from Winslow Adaptics, but if that doesn't pan out I will let you know. I also found this place that sells the right angle ones for $12.75. Hmm...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:52:32 -0500, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 23:01:35 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Anyone know where I could find one of these adapters???
http://www.artecdesign.ee/~martr/dongle-fwh-plcc-cable/P3286279.JPG
Peter manufactured some of them.
Yep, I make an equivalent. My adapter is a board with a 2x5 pin header on top, for the normal dongle cable. Stefan took a photo of it, could I/we get a version of that photo?
IIRC I dug up a manufacturer with reasonable prices back then. Peter probably has the data on file.
You helped me out by finding the swedish distributor for the german manufacturer cab GmbH.
No idea whether he still has some adapters left.
I don't have them in stock (Ron bought the last one) but I can order parts and make more. Let me know if you would like to order one.
Thanks for the offer Peter. I'm waiting to hear back from Winslow Adaptics, but if that doesn't pan out I will let you know. I also found this place that sells the right angle ones for $12.75. Hmm...
Oops, here is the $12.75 link: http://www.epboard.com/eproducts/protoadapter2.htm
Joseph Smith wrote:
I think the cab part is a better deal. It has pretty good mechanical properties.
//Peter
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:45:03 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Joseph Smith wrote:
I think the cab part is a better deal. It has pretty good mechanical properties.
How much is it? Do you have any pictures of what it looks like?
This is would be the ulitmate solution: http://www.winslow.co.uk/product/14523 It would allow you to flash the chip and then boot it without removing any parts :-)
Joseph Smith wrote:
I think the cab part is a better deal. It has pretty good mechanical properties.
How much is it?
Depends on the quantity, as usual. A store in Berlin sells one type of the PLCC plugs (wrong type for PCB mounting though) for 15 EUR. http://www.segor.de/bilder/000066d5.jpg
Do you have any pictures of what it looks like?
Again, no. Stefan took a picture of my last adapter. I'll see if I can get the photo from him.
Expect this to cost between USD 200 and USD 300 from Winslow.
It would allow you to flash the chip and then boot it without removing any parts :-)
Yes, that is the point with the adapter for the dongle.
//Peter
How much is it?
Depends on the quantity, as usual. A store in Berlin sells one type of the PLCC plugs (wrong type for PCB mounting though) for 15 EUR. http://www.segor.de/bilder/000066d5.jpg
I would only want 2 of these for myself so it may not be worth your effort. If not I may just get the male plug/connector and build a couple.
Anyone know if USB ports have power feedback protection. What I mean by that is if I use the LPCflasher as a inline flasher with a PLCC32 socket plug, flash the chip and then power up the motherboard, I don't want the VCC's from the motherboard to short out the flasher and or the USB port from the host PC. The 3.3V regulator I am using has a internal diode so I am not so worried about that. I am just worried about the power source 5V USB. I could always use a Schottky diode that will only drop the voltage by .6V, but I don't know if 4.4V will suffice???
Any help would be appreciated.
Joseph Smith wrote:
Anyone know if USB ports have power feedback protection.
All the details are in the USB spec. IIRC electrical is a separate chapter.
What I mean by that is if I use the LPCflasher as a inline flasher with a PLCC32 socket plug,
I don't understand this. Do you mean a socket or a plug?
flash the chip
Flash which chip?
and then power up the motherboard, I don't want the VCC's from the motherboard to short out the flasher and or the USB port from the host PC.
Make sure GND is connected across and you should be OK.
The 3.3V regulator I am using has a internal diode so I am not so worried about that. I am just worried about the power source 5V USB. I could always use a Schottky diode that will only drop the voltage by .6V, but I don't know if 4.4V will suffice???
Suffice for what? Look at the documentation for the regulator you're using to see what input voltage it needs.
//Peter
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:26:05 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Joseph Smith wrote:
Anyone know if USB ports have power feedback protection.
All the details are in the USB spec. IIRC electrical is a separate chapter.
What I mean by that is if I use the LPCflasher as a inline flasher with a PLCC32 socket plug,
I don't understand this. Do you mean a socket or a plug?
Both, a socket on top of a plug that is also connected to the LPCflasher. If I power on the motherboard it is going to supply voltage back to the LPCflasher, right?
flash the chip
Flash which chip?
Any LPC or FWH.
and then power up the motherboard, I don't want the VCC's from the motherboard to short out the flasher and or the USB port from the host PC.
Make sure GND is connected across and you should be OK.
Yup.
The 3.3V regulator I am using has a internal diode so I am not so worried about that. I am just worried about the power source 5V USB. I could always use a Schottky diode that will only drop the voltage by .6V, but I don't know if 4.4V will suffice???
Suffice for what? Look at the documentation for the regulator you're using to see what input voltage it needs.
I wasn't really ready to release this yet, because the power part is still a work in progress but it will be the easiest way to explain this. See the diode I have above the regulator? I put that there so power is not flowing back to the USB port of the PC doing the flashing when you power on the motherboard that just got flashed. My question is if I take out that diode and you power on the motherboard that just got flashed is power going to flow back into the USB port and damage it? And if I leave the diode it is going to drop the 5V by approx. half a volt. Will I still be able to flash 5V chips at 4.5V? Does that make sense?
Joseph Smith wrote:
I wasn't really ready to release this yet
Very similar to the cheaplpc orignally by Andy Green of warmcat.com it was orphaned a few years ago and then adopted by cheaplpc.com. Have a look there. The software is there too.
//Peter
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:20:07 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Joseph Smith wrote:
I wasn't really ready to release this yet
Very similar to the cheaplpc orignally by Andy Green of warmcat.com it was orphaned a few years ago and then adopted by cheaplpc.com. Have a look there. The software is there too.
similar, same concept, but with some improvments :-)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
Anyone know if USB ports have power feedback protection. What I mean by that is if I use the LPCflasher as a inline flasher with a PLCC32 socket plug, flash the chip and then power up the motherboard, I don't want the VCC's from the motherboard to short out the flasher and or the USB port from the host PC. The 3.3V regulator I am using has a internal diode so I am not so worried about that. I am just worried about the power source 5V USB. I could always use a Schottky diode that will only drop the voltage by .6V, but I don't know if 4.4V will suffice???
I am a little bit confused about your usage model. What it sounds like:
You will have a "target" PC for which you are developing firmware. Some sort of PCB or protoboard with one PLCC socket and one PLCC stacking connector will be plugged into the ROM socket of that PC. A ROM device will be plugged in to the PLCC socket of your PCB. Another PC will be a development system, and a USB and parallel cable will connect from your PCB to the development PC. With the target PC *off*, you will re-flash the ROM from the development PC
If that is an accurate description, I think you have a few more things to be careful about. The hazard you are asking about deals with the 3V from the target PC turning on and fighting the ~3-5 of your protoboard. What about while you are "flashing"? You will be injecting 3V from your prototype into the 3V rail of the target motherboard, which is not generally a good idea. Also, you will be attempting to drive the LPC signals against a "dead" motherboard, which may or may not work.
If the ROM is socketed, why not just program the ROM in your device, then pull it out and put it in the target? If you really want the convenience of not having to do that, you'll probably have to be a little more careful about not fighting the target.
On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:50:23 -0500, "Tom Sylla" tsylla@gmail.com wrote:
You will have a "target" PC for which you are developing firmware. Some sort of PCB or protoboard with one PLCC socket and one PLCC stacking connector will be plugged into the ROM socket of that PC. A ROM device will be plugged in to the PLCC socket of your PCB. Another PC will be a development system, and a USB and parallel cable will connect from your PCB to the development PC. With the target PC *off*, you will re-flash the ROM from the development PC
Yes, you got it.
If that is an accurate description, I think you have a few more things to be careful about. The hazard you are asking about deals with the 3V from the target PC turning on and fighting the ~3-5 of your protoboard. What about while you are "flashing"? You will be injecting 3V from your prototype into the 3V rail of the target motherboard, which is not generally a good idea.
True, good point.
Also, you will be attempting to drive the LPC signals against a "dead" motherboard, which may or may not work.
If the ROM is socketed, why not just program the ROM in your device, then pull it out and put it in the target? If you really want the convenience of not having to do that, you'll probably have to be a little more careful about not fighting the target.
Ah one of the functions, will be the ability to flashed soldered on bios's.
I'm thinking for now to keep the LPCflasher basic and cheap, just using the schematic without the diode for now. We could always come up with power fault modifications and add those to daughter cards. They don't necessarily need to be on the LPCflasher main board.
Joseph Smith wrote:
I think I am going to name this project the "LPCflasher". So I added up all the stuff I ordered to build it and it only came to $17.87. Yah, that's what I am talking about, a excellent bios development tool for under $20 dollars :-)
Corey Osgood wrote:
So let me get this straight...you're building a tool to flash LPC/FWH using a connection over the parallel port, with the ability to use USB power? This sounds familiar:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=31 99
I used a Willem programmer for my LinuxBIOS port to the Nvidia CK8-04 (nForce 4) CRB over three years ago. The Willem programmer cost about US $40 full retail back then. Willem has gone through numerous board versions. It worked great 3 years ago, although the debug cycle was almost 5 minutes, since I did an erase chip, followed by a write with verify. Although somewhat slow it is very reliable.
The Willem contains a set of 12 dip switches which must be set for the device being programmed. The included program shows a clear diagram of the dip settings for each supported device, so programming a part is trivial, but not fool proof.
The software for the Willem is MS Windows only. I never tried using Wine or Codeweavers' CrossOver Linux with it. Native Linux support for the Willem programmers would be nice though.
The Willem family of programmers support a wide range of devices, and although the overlap is very broad, not all versions support exactly the same set of devices. So make the Willem programmer you buy supports the device you plan to program. Each Willem contains numerous programming ports which vary based on the Willem board version, so quite often an adapter is not required (assuming you buy the correct Willem board version).
I'm not sure that reimplementing a Willem programmer would be a worthwhile commercial effort. The Willem can program a very long list of different devices. I'm not sure that anyone could match its broad support of various programmable devices for under US $40.
Sincerely,
Ken Fuchs
I'm not sure that reimplementing a Willem programmer would be a worthwhile commercial effort. The Willem can program a very long list of different devices. I'm not sure that anyone could match its broad support of various programmable devices for under US $40.
I am not sure where you came up with a "commercial effort". I have no intension on marketing and selling it. It is simply a project for a cheap viable modular solution. Great for those do-it-yourself electronic hobbyist (like me). By building one of these it also gives the person a better understanding of how the whole process works. It also allows the do-it-yourself electronic hobbyist to customize it anyway they want depending on their requirements.
-
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Corey Osgood -
Joseph Smith -
Ken.Fuchs＠bench.com -
Peter Stuge -
Tom Sylla