Enable non-NVME devices in M.2 slot?

[Rafael Send]

Hi,
I know a couple folks here are active on Thinkpads.com / familiar with the
X210 port by Matthew.

The stock BIOS doesn't appear to support non-NVME devices in the M.2 slot;
I'm attempting to get a Sunix UPD2018 card working to add USB-C.

With stock BIOS, the card works just fine in the WiFi slot, and an NVME
drive works just fine in the M.2 slot so nothing appears physically broken.

However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I try to
put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should just show
up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.

I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I might as
well get some opinions on the subject.

What do you guys think, can this be done with Coreboot?

Cheers,
Rafael

[Angel Pons]

Hi Rafael,

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 07:47 Rafael Send  wrote:
> Hi,
> I know a couple folks here are active on Thinkpads.com / familiar with the
> X210 port by Matthew.
>
> The stock BIOS doesn't appear to support non-NVME devices in the M.2 slot;
> I'm attempting to get a Sunix UPD2018 card working to add USB-C.
>
> With stock BIOS, the card works just fine in the WiFi slot, and an NVME
> drive works just fine in the M.2 slot so nothing appears physically broken.
>
> However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I try
> to put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should just
> show up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.
>
> I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I might as
> well get some opinions on the subject.
>
> What do you guys think, can this be done with Coreboot?

Quite possibly. Why don't you try it? If it works, problem solved. If it
doesn't work, then we know something is wrong and can look for a fix.

Right now, I can only come up with a single idea: Does the M.2 slot have
any PCIe lanes routed to it? If it only has SATA, then bad news.

Cheers,
> Rafael

Best regards,

Angel
>

[Nico Huber]

Hi Rafael,

On 07.12.19 07:40, Rafael Send wrote:
> However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I try to
> put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should just show
> up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.

have you tried the adapter with another device yet? Though, even if it
did work, from above link:

"1. All kinds of Motherboard and equipment condition such as signal
    driving ability is different, the results of our test does not
    guarantee that it is the same as your test results. You need to
    know, as long as using a extension cable, the signal will have a
    loss. The buyer who requires perfectly, please don't buy."

So they know, that board design matters for the compatibility of their
adapter. I'm a mere software developer, so could be totally wrong about
this: PCIe rates are now that high that the trace length between chips
can get longer than a wavelength. Doesn't mean it can't work, but there
may be things to take special care of and I don't know if regular PCIe
ports are prepared for it. In other words, lightspeed might be too slow
to make things like this plug'n'play :D
> I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I might as
> well get some opinions on the subject.

Still worth a shot, imho. You never know what a proprietary BIOS does.
And even if it doesn't work, coreboot logs can give some insight.

Nico

[Rafael Send]

Hey,
I used the mini PCIe -> x1PCIe version with the same cable length from the
same people to test the card in the WiFi slot successfully, so I doubt that
it is a signal integrity problem.

I'll try to build against coreboot master on Monday and see what happens.

How can I get the sort of logs that would help here out of coreboot?
I'll be building with Tianocore.

Cheers,
Rafael

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 04:58 Nico Huber  wrote:
> Hi Rafael,
>
> On 07.12.19 07:40, Rafael Send wrote:
> > However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I try
>
> to
> > put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> > https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should just
>
> show
> > up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.
>
> have you tried the adapter with another device yet? Though, even if it
> did work, from above link:
>
> "1. All kinds of Motherboard and equipment condition such as signal
>     driving ability is different, the results of our test does not
>     guarantee that it is the same as your test results. You need to
>     know, as long as using a extension cable, the signal will have a
>     loss. The buyer who requires perfectly, please don't buy."
>
> So they know, that board design matters for the compatibility of their
> adapter. I'm a mere software developer, so could be totally wrong about
> this: PCIe rates are now that high that the trace length between chips
> can get longer than a wavelength. Doesn't mean it can't work, but there
> may be things to take special care of and I don't know if regular PCIe
> ports are prepared for it. In other words, lightspeed might be too slow
> to make things like this plug'n'play :D
> > I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I might as
> > well get some opinions on the subject.
>
> Still worth a shot, imho. You never know what a proprietary BIOS does.
> And even if it doesn't work, coreboot logs can give some insight.
>
> Nico

[Matt B]

As somebody who's abused the hell out of pcie extenders (I have over three
meters of pcie-over-cheap-usb3.0-cable in one box) I've never had an
obvious issue so it seems pretty tolerant. You probably just won't get the
same transfer speed.

I would check if any drives you have show up as being attached to pcie
instead of sata when in that slot.
Also double check it's keying. If the keying of the slot is such that it
can't even accept an nvme drive, then there's your answer right there.

Sincerely,
    -Matt

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 6:12 PM Rafael Send 
wrote:
> Hey,
> I used the mini PCIe -> x1PCIe version with the same cable length from the
> same people to test the card in the WiFi slot successfully, so I doubt that
> it is a signal integrity problem.
>
> I'll try to build against coreboot master on Monday and see what happens.
>
> How can I get the sort of logs that would help here out of coreboot?
> I'll be building with Tianocore.
>
> Cheers,
> Rafael
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 04:58 Nico Huber  wrote:
> > Hi Rafael,
> >
> > On 07.12.19 07:40, Rafael Send wrote:
> > > However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I
> >
> > try to
> > > put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> > > https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should just
> >
> > show
> > > up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.
> >
> > have you tried the adapter with another device yet? Though, even if it
> > did work, from above link:
> >
> > "1. All kinds of Motherboard and equipment condition such as signal
> >     driving ability is different, the results of our test does not
> >     guarantee that it is the same as your test results. You need to
> >     know, as long as using a extension cable, the signal will have a
> >     loss. The buyer who requires perfectly, please don't buy."
> >
> > So they know, that board design matters for the compatibility of their
> > adapter. I'm a mere software developer, so could be totally wrong about
> > this: PCIe rates are now that high that the trace length between chips
> > can get longer than a wavelength. Doesn't mean it can't work, but there
> > may be things to take special care of and I don't know if regular PCIe
> > ports are prepared for it. In other words, lightspeed might be too slow
> > to make things like this plug'n'play :D
> > > I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I might
> >
> > as
> > > well get some opinions on the subject.
> >
> > Still worth a shot, imho. You never know what a proprietary BIOS does.
> > And even if it doesn't work, coreboot logs can give some insight.
> >
> > Nico
>
> coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Rafael Send]

Hi,
It's an M-key slot and I'm currently running an XPG SX8200 Pro in it right
now, so it's definitely got x4 PCIe...

R

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019, 15:25 Matt B  wrote:
> As somebody who's abused the hell out of pcie extenders (I have over three
> meters of pcie-over-cheap-usb3.0-cable in one box) I've never had an
> obvious issue so it seems pretty tolerant. You probably just won't get the
> same transfer speed.
>
> I would check if any drives you have show up as being attached to pcie
> instead of sata when in that slot.
> Also double check it's keying. If the keying of the slot is such that it
> can't even accept an nvme drive, then there's your answer right there.
>
> Sincerely,
>     -Matt
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 6:12 PM Rafael Send 
> wrote:
> > Hey,
> > I used the mini PCIe -> x1PCIe version with the same cable length from
> > the same people to test the card in the WiFi slot successfully, so I doubt
> > that it is a signal integrity problem.
> >
> > I'll try to build against coreboot master on Monday and see what happens.
> >
> > How can I get the sort of logs that would help here out of coreboot?
> > I'll be building with Tianocore.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rafael
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 04:58 Nico Huber  wrote:
> > > Hi Rafael,
> > >
> > > On 07.12.19 07:40, Rafael Send wrote:
> > > > However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I
> > >
> > > try to
> > > > put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> > > > https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should just
> > >
> > > show
> > > > up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.
> > >
> > > have you tried the adapter with another device yet? Though, even if it
> > > did work, from above link:
> > >
> > > "1. All kinds of Motherboard and equipment condition such as signal
> > >     driving ability is different, the results of our test does not
> > >     guarantee that it is the same as your test results. You need to
> > >     know, as long as using a extension cable, the signal will have a
> > >     loss. The buyer who requires perfectly, please don't buy."
> > >
> > > So they know, that board design matters for the compatibility of their
> > > adapter. I'm a mere software developer, so could be totally wrong about
> > > this: PCIe rates are now that high that the trace length between chips
> > > can get longer than a wavelength. Doesn't mean it can't work, but there
> > > may be things to take special care of and I don't know if regular PCIe
> > > ports are prepared for it. In other words, lightspeed might be too slow
> > > to make things like this plug'n'play :D
> > > > I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I might
> > >
> > > as
> > > > well get some opinions on the subject.
> > >
> > > Still worth a shot, imho. You never know what a proprietary BIOS does.
> > > And even if it doesn't work, coreboot logs can give some insight.
> > >
> > > Nico
> >
> > coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Rafael Send]

Evening!
Alright so I built against the latest master, enabled all the root ports
(0-12), disabled the NVME (root port 8)? for good measure (although I also
tried with it remaining enabled).

I still don't see the device under either "pci" in the EFI shell or under
"lspci" once Ubuntu is booted.

I don't have any other PCI cards that I could test here, unfortunately.

How shall I go about debugging this further?  Can I get logs out of
coreboot somehow?

Cheers,
Rafael

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 7:53 PM Rafael Send 
wrote:
> Hi,
> It's an M-key slot and I'm currently running an XPG SX8200 Pro in it right
> now, so it's definitely got x4 PCIe...
>
> R
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019, 15:25 Matt B  wrote:
> > As somebody who's abused the hell out of pcie extenders (I have over
> > three meters of pcie-over-cheap-usb3.0-cable in one box) I've never had an
> > obvious issue so it seems pretty tolerant. You probably just won't get the
> > same transfer speed.
> >
> > I would check if any drives you have show up as being attached to pcie
> > instead of sata when in that slot.
> > Also double check it's keying. If the keying of the slot is such that it
> > can't even accept an nvme drive, then there's your answer right there.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >     -Matt
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 6:12 PM Rafael Send 
> > wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > > I used the mini PCIe -> x1PCIe version with the same cable length from
> > > the same people to test the card in the WiFi slot successfully, so I doubt
> > > that it is a signal integrity problem.
> > >
> > > I'll try to build against coreboot master on Monday and see what happens.
> > >
> > > How can I get the sort of logs that would help here out of coreboot?
> > > I'll be building with Tianocore.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Rafael
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 04:58 Nico Huber  wrote:
> > > > Hi Rafael,
> > > >
> > > > On 07.12.19 07:40, Rafael Send wrote:
> > > > > However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I
> > > >
> > > > try to
> > > > > put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> > > > > https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should
> > > >
> > > > just show
> > > > > up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.
> > > >
> > > > have you tried the adapter with another device yet? Though, even if it
> > > > did work, from above link:
> > > >
> > > > "1. All kinds of Motherboard and equipment condition such as signal
> > > >     driving ability is different, the results of our test does not
> > > >     guarantee that it is the same as your test results. You need to
> > > >     know, as long as using a extension cable, the signal will have a
> > > >     loss. The buyer who requires perfectly, please don't buy."
> > > >
> > > > So they know, that board design matters for the compatibility of their
> > > > adapter. I'm a mere software developer, so could be totally wrong about
> > > > this: PCIe rates are now that high that the trace length between chips
> > > > can get longer than a wavelength. Doesn't mean it can't work, but there
> > > > may be things to take special care of and I don't know if regular PCIe
> > > > ports are prepared for it. In other words, lightspeed might be too slow
> > > > to make things like this plug'n'play :D
> > > > > I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I
> > > >
> > > > might as
> > > > > well get some opinions on the subject.
> > > >
> > > > Still worth a shot, imho. You never know what a proprietary BIOS does.
> > > > And even if it doesn't work, coreboot logs can give some insight.
> > > >
> > > > Nico
> > >
> > > coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]

[Rafael Send]

Hi,
I've pulled a log with my NVME drive installed, and one with one of the USB
cards installed that doesn't work.

As far as I can tell, in the USB-card case the device is not detected by
coreboot either, but then I'm no expert in reading these logs.

Could I possibly get some extra eyes here to help me double-check that the
device is actually NOT being detected, or if something else is happening?

Thanks,
Rafael

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 5:31 PM Rafael Send 
wrote:
> Evening!
> Alright so I built against the latest master, enabled all the root ports
> (0-12), disabled the NVME (root port 8)? for good measure (although I also
> tried with it remaining enabled).
>
> I still don't see the device under either "pci" in the EFI shell or under
> "lspci" once Ubuntu is booted.
>
> I don't have any other PCI cards that I could test here, unfortunately.
>
> How shall I go about debugging this further?  Can I get logs out of
> coreboot somehow?
>
> Cheers,
> Rafael
>
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 7:53 PM Rafael Send 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > It's an M-key slot and I'm currently running an XPG SX8200 Pro in it
> > right now, so it's definitely got x4 PCIe...
> >
> > R
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 8, 2019, 15:25 Matt B  wrote:
> > > As somebody who's abused the hell out of pcie extenders (I have over
> > > three meters of pcie-over-cheap-usb3.0-cable in one box) I've never had an
> > > obvious issue so it seems pretty tolerant. You probably just won't get the
> > > same transfer speed.
> > >
> > > I would check if any drives you have show up as being attached to pcie
> > > instead of sata when in that slot.
> > > Also double check it's keying. If the keying of the slot is such that it
> > > can't even accept an nvme drive, then there's your answer right there.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >     -Matt
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 6:12 PM Rafael Send 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hey,
> > > > I used the mini PCIe -> x1PCIe version with the same cable length from
> > > > the same people to test the card in the WiFi slot successfully, so I doubt
> > > > that it is a signal integrity problem.
> > > >
> > > > I'll try to build against coreboot master on Monday and see what
> > > > happens.
> > > >
> > > > How can I get the sort of logs that would help here out of coreboot?
> > > > I'll be building with Tianocore.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Rafael
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019, 04:58 Nico Huber  wrote:
> > > > > Hi Rafael,
> > > > >
> > > > > On 07.12.19 07:40, Rafael Send wrote:
> > > > > > However, so far nothing I've done lets me detect the Sunix card if I
> > > > >
> > > > > try to
> > > > > > put it in the NVME slot using this adapter
> > > > > > https://www.adt.link/product/R42.html. I would think it should
> > > > >
> > > > > just show
> > > > > > up under "lspci" like it does in the WiFi slot, but it does not.
> > > > >
> > > > > have you tried the adapter with another device yet? Though, even if it
> > > > > did work, from above link:
> > > > >
> > > > > "1. All kinds of Motherboard and equipment condition such as signal
> > > > >     driving ability is different, the results of our test does not
> > > > >     guarantee that it is the same as your test results. You need to
> > > > >     know, as long as using a extension cable, the signal will have a
> > > > >     loss. The buyer who requires perfectly, please don't buy."
> > > > >
> > > > > So they know, that board design matters for the compatibility of their
> > > > > adapter. I'm a mere software developer, so could be totally wrong about
> > > > > this: PCIe rates are now that high that the trace length between chips
> > > > > can get longer than a wavelength. Doesn't mean it can't work, but there
> > > > > may be things to take special care of and I don't know if regular PCIe
> > > > > ports are prepared for it. In other words, lightspeed might be too slow
> > > > > to make things like this plug'n'play :D
> > > > > > I have not tried the latest Coreboot / port yet, but I figured I
> > > > >
> > > > > might as
> > > > > > well get some opinions on the subject.
> > > > >
> > > > > Still worth a shot, imho. You never know what a proprietary BIOS does.
> > > > > And even if it doesn't work, coreboot logs can give some insight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nico
> > > >
> > > > coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]