Hi,
AFAICS the time has come to give flashrom its own mailing list (maybe flashrom@coreboot.org) and IRC channel (irc.freenode.net/#flashrom).
I do realize this has been brought up in the past, but while I was sceptical back then, I realized that the times have changed in the last few months. The release of flashrom 0.9.0 has increased both visiblity and user base, resulting in a sizable portion of list and chat traffic to be related to flashrom.
Some of us are only interested in coreboot, while others are only interested in flashrom. Since filtering mails according to subject can introduce lots of errors, having two separate lists would make watching one one of flashrom/coreboot easier.
List traffic over the last few years: 2007: 29 mails/day 2008: 41 mails/day 2009: 36 mails/day
Although the list traffic has not yet reached linux-kernel levels, it is already too much to read in full. I hope splitting the lists will allow people to concentrate on their personal area of interest and also encourage more reviews. After all, if you have to read less mails, you can respond to more of them.
One issue to solve is how we want to handle flashrom success/failure reports sent to flashrom@coreboot.org. Right now they end up on an unmoderated private list. After the change, they'd get a message that the list is moderated. This might discourage users, so we have to think of a nice moderation message, possibly mentioning that emergency help for broken flash is available on IRC.
The suggested way forward is outlined below: 1. Register #flashrom on irc.freenode.net (done) 2. Invite parties interested in flashrom to join #flashrom besides #coreboot. 3. Pre-Announce the mailing list split with the following text: "coreboot@coreboot.org will be split in two lists. flashrom@coreboot.org is where flashrom development and usage will be discussed. coreboot@coreboot.org will carry all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members will be subscribed automatically to flashrom@coreboot.org. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list once the split is done." 4. Wait a week for protests etc. 5. Create a new mailing list flashrom@coreboot.org with the same subscribers as coreboot@coreboot.org. 6. Announce the mailing list split with the following text: "coreboot@coreboot.org has been split in two lists. flashrom@coreboot.org is where flashrom development and usage are discussed from now own. coreboot@coreboot.org carries all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members have been subscribed automatically to flashrom@coreboot.org. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list."
Thoughts? Flames?
Regards, Carl-Daniel
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:50:01PM +0200, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Although the list traffic has not yet reached linux-kernel levels, it is already too much to read in full. I hope splitting the lists will allow people to concentrate on their personal area of interest and also encourage more reviews. After all, if you have to read less mails, you can respond to more of them.
ACK, several other developers have expressed they'd like to split off flashrom into an extra list.
One issue to solve is how we want to handle flashrom success/failure reports sent to flashrom@coreboot.org. Right now they end up on an unmoderated private list. After the change, they'd get a message that the list is moderated.
Fine with me. As discussed in the past I think it's crucial that this stuff is public (and no, I don't give a shit about spam. I also don't think any users who are willing to send reports will refrain from doing so just because their email may become public that way).
Maybe there could be a filter like "the mail has to start with [flashrom] otherwise it'll be moderated" or so? Can this be done with stock mailman? Those mails would go in unmoderated, all others be moderated.
Anyway, this is no requirement, we can go ahead and make a new list even without the above setup.
a nice moderation message, possibly mentioning that emergency help for broken flash is available on IRC.
Yes, definately.
The suggested way forward is outlined below:
- Register #flashrom on irc.freenode.net (done)
1.5: Document it on the flashrom page and on coreboot.org/IRC.
- Invite parties interested in flashrom to join #flashrom besides
#coreboot. 3. Pre-Announce the mailing list split with the following text: "coreboot@coreboot.org will be split in two lists. flashrom@coreboot.org is where flashrom development and usage will be discussed. coreboot@coreboot.org will carry all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members will be subscribed automatically to flashrom@coreboot.org. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list once the split is done."
Looks good. Moving over all current subscribers is very important IMO. Everyone is of course free to unsubscribe if wanted.
Uwe.
On 24.06.2009 15:03, Uwe Hermann wrote:
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:50:01PM +0200, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
One issue to solve is how we want to handle flashrom success/failure reports sent to flashrom@coreboot.org. Right now they end up on an unmoderated private list. After the change, they'd get a message that the list is moderated.
Fine with me. As discussed in the past I think it's crucial that this stuff is public (and no, I don't give a shit about spam. I also don't think any users who are willing to send reports will refrain from doing so just because their email may become public that way).
Agreed.
Maybe there could be a filter like "the mail has to start with [flashrom] otherwise it'll be moderated" or so? Can this be done with stock mailman? Those mails would go in unmoderated, all others be moderated.
No idea. If the mailman moderation messages could be changed to include a "confirm" link besides the "cancel" link, that should already combat most of the spam and still allow fast posting.
The suggested way forward is outlined below:
- Register #flashrom on irc.freenode.net (done)
1.5: Document it on the flashrom page and on coreboot.org/IRC.
Done. What do you think?
Regards, Carl-Daniel
Selon Uwe Hermann uwe@hermann-uwe.de:
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:50:01PM +0200, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Although the list traffic has not yet reached linux-kernel levels, it is already too much to read in full. I hope splitting the lists will allow people to concentrate on their personal area of interest and also encourage more reviews. After all, if you have to read less mails, you can respond to more of them.
ACK, several other developers have expressed they'd like to split off flashrom into an extra list.
One issue to solve is how we want to handle flashrom success/failure reports sent to flashrom@coreboot.org. Right now they end up on an unmoderated private list. After the change, they'd get a message that the list is moderated.
Fine with me. As discussed in the past I think it's crucial that this stuff is public (and no, I don't give a shit about spam. I also don't think any users who are willing to send reports will refrain from doing so just because their email may become public that way).
I'm one of flashrom reader, but less interested with coreboot (sorry for the team), so, fine for me too.
Maybe there could be a filter like "the mail has to start with [flashrom] otherwise it'll be moderated" or so? Can this be done with stock mailman? Those mails would go in unmoderated, all others be moderated.
Anyway, this is no requirement, we can go ahead and make a new list even without the above setup.
a nice moderation message, possibly mentioning that emergency help for broken flash is available on IRC.
Yes, definately.
The suggested way forward is outlined below:
- Register #flashrom on irc.freenode.net (done)
1.5: Document it on the flashrom page and on coreboot.org/IRC.
- Invite parties interested in flashrom to join #flashrom besides
#coreboot. 3. Pre-Announce the mailing list split with the following text: "coreboot@coreboot.org will be split in two lists. flashrom@coreboot.org is where flashrom development and usage will be discussed. coreboot@coreboot.org will carry all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members will be subscribed automatically to flashrom@coreboot.org. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list once the split is
done."
Looks good. Moving over all current subscribers is very important IMO. Everyone is of course free to unsubscribe if wanted.
Agreed too ;-)
Stephan.
Uwe.
http://www.hermann-uwe.de | http://www.holsham-traders.de http://www.crazy-hacks.org | http://www.unmaintained-free-software.org
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
On Wednesday 24 June 2009 12:50:01 Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Hi,
AFAICS the time has come to give flashrom its own mailing list (maybe flashrom@coreboot.org) and IRC channel (irc.freenode.net/#flashrom).
I do realize this has been brought up in the past, but while I was sceptical back then, I realized that the times have changed in the last few months. The release of flashrom 0.9.0 has increased both visiblity and user base, resulting in a sizable portion of list and chat traffic to be related to flashrom.
Some of us are only interested in coreboot, while others are only interested in flashrom. Since filtering mails according to subject can introduce lots of errors, having two separate lists would make watching one one of flashrom/coreboot easier.
Good idea, I also welcome the split.
List traffic over the last few years: 2007: 29 mails/day 2008: 41 mails/day 2009: 36 mails/day
Although the list traffic has not yet reached linux-kernel levels, it is already too much to read in full. I hope splitting the lists will allow people to concentrate on their personal area of interest and also encourage more reviews. After all, if you have to read less mails, you can respond to more of them.
One issue to solve is how we want to handle flashrom success/failure reports sent to flashrom@coreboot.org. Right now they end up on an unmoderated private list. After the change, they'd get a message that the list is moderated. This might discourage users, so we have to think of a nice moderation message, possibly mentioning that emergency help for broken flash is available on IRC.
I also think, like Uwe, that it would be a good idea to make that messages public. Maybe a different tag (e.g. "[Flashrom-Chips]") for that mails directly on the flashrom list?
The suggested way forward is outlined below:
- Register #flashrom on irc.freenode.net (done)
- Invite parties interested in flashrom to join #flashrom besides
#coreboot. 3. Pre-Announce the mailing list split with the following text: "coreboot@coreboot.org will be split in two lists. flashrom@coreboot.org is where flashrom development and usage will be discussed. coreboot@coreboot.org will carry all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members will be subscribed automatically to flashrom@coreboot.org. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list once the split is done." 4. Wait a week for protests etc. 5. Create a new mailing list flashrom@coreboot.org with the same subscribers as coreboot@coreboot.org.
Indeed good to move all existing users to the list.
- Announce the mailing list split with the following text:
"coreboot@coreboot.org has been split in two lists. flashrom@coreboot.org is where flashrom development and usage are discussed from now own. coreboot@coreboot.org carries all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members have been subscribed automatically to flashrom@coreboot.org. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list."
Thoughts? Flames?
Great - that's it. ;)
Regards, Carl-Daniel
Regards, Harald
Dear list participants,
flashrom has grown up to a point where it is large and vital enough to live in its own home. To accommodate flashrom's new independence, the #coreboot IRC channel on irc.freenode.net and the coreboot@coreboot.org mailing list will be split in two.
New mailing list structure: flashrom@flashrom.org is where flashrom development and usage will be discussed. coreboot@coreboot.org will carry all traffic not related to flashrom. coreboot@coreboot.org list members will be subscribed automatically to flashrom@flashrom.org over the next few days. If you are only interested in either coreboot or flashrom, feel free to unsubscribe from either list once the split is done.
New IRC structure: #flashrom on irc.freenode.net is the new channel for flashrom development and usage discussions. #flashrom is already active, please join us. #coreboot on irc.freenode.net will remain the place to discuss all coreboot and non-flashrom matters.
You will get another mail once the new mailing list is active.
Thanks go to Stefan Reinauer and his company coresystems GmbH for providing all the infrastructure for flashrom and coreboot.
Regards, Carl-Daniel
-
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Harald Gutmann -
stephan.guilloux＠free.fr -
Uwe Hermann