To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
At 12:00 PM 5/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank frannk_m1@yahoo.com Subject: Re: debugger To: ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov Cc: linuxbios@clustermatic.org
sis55x SOC x86 based --- ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, Frank wrote:
Can anyone recommend a debugger for bringing up LinuxBios on
an
x86 system...
what kind of chip? and how much money can you spend?
ron
I don't mind getting dirty. as a matter of fact i prefer to work in the dirt. That's why I'm looking at linuxbios.:-) I come from a ppc and mips world where debuuger's are a lot more plentiful and cheaper. What is a "POST card"... --- jarcher jarcher@pobox.com wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
At 12:00 PM 5/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank frannk_m1@yahoo.com Subject: Re: debugger To: ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov Cc: linuxbios@clustermatic.org
sis55x SOC x86 based --- ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, Frank wrote:
Can anyone recommend a debugger for bringing up
LinuxBios on
an
x86 system...
what kind of chip? and how much money can you spend?
ron
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com
A POST (power on self test) card is basically a dumb card that decodes an I/O port (80h) and displays the value. Nothing but the CPU access to the ROM and I/O bus (PCI or ISA) has to work to access the card.
mov al, CRUMB_1 out 80h,al
Like I said really down and dirty. But sometimes that's the only way to debug a system.
I snagged a link to some sources from a message posted here a couple of days ago.
Jordan
At 10:54 AM 5/15/2003 -0700, Frank wrote:
I don't mind getting dirty. as a matter of fact i prefer to work in the dirt. That's why I'm looking at linuxbios.:-) I come from a ppc and mips world where debuuger's are a lot more plentiful and cheaper. What is a "POST card"... --- jarcher jarcher@pobox.com wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
At 12:00 PM 5/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank frannk_m1@yahoo.com Subject: Re: debugger To: ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov Cc: linuxbios@clustermatic.org
sis55x SOC x86 based --- ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, Frank wrote:
Can anyone recommend a debugger for bringing up
LinuxBios on
an
x86 system...
what kind of chip? and how much money can you spend?
ron
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com
On Thu, 15 May 2003, jarcher wrote:
A POST (power on self test) card is basically a dumb card that decodes an I/O port (80h) and displays the value. Nothing but the CPU access to the ROM and I/O bus (PCI or ISA) has to work to access the card.
mov al, CRUMB_1 out 80h,al
Speaking of PORt-80 cards. Something I was wondering about is how are they implemented from technical viewpoint. Anyone care to elaborate?
Is chipset support required for such card to work? Would this be south-bridge? What exactly gets send over PCI/ISA bus. Also Compaq seems to use port 84.. would this mean they switched some GPIO leads to south bridge that make POST card?
Speaking of those stuff it reminds me Alpha which had like 4 leds on motherboard. However unlike POST on x86 it was memory mapped instead of port mapped. So you would simply write into memory. Obviously my expereince with Alpha was from OS perespective so not sure if those debugging leds would work from PROM level as well.
Does ADLO support cdrom boot?. I tested it by setting cmos 0x3d as 0x003 and connecting cd-rom as primary slave device. But it failed to detect cd-rom.
Heechul
Does ADLO support cdrom boot?. I tested it by setting cmos 0x3d as 0x003 and connecting cd-rom as primary slave device. But it failed to detect cd-rom.
There's some CD-ROM booting code in BOCHS BIOS (as you have noticed), but at the present status it is untested.
My guesstimate is that it should work but you will have to fix timing problems. For example I would guess that it does not detect CD because it is slower in responding than a typical hdd would be.
Hope it helps, Adam
Hello from Gregg C Levine A POST card? How to explain simply... A POST card, was created, (Or designed), to display the activities of the computer, through Port 80, while it works from power on, the final prompt. The term POST means, Power On Self Test. It descends from the original IBM-PC world. They are very useful, in this world, because we are creating the next generation BIOS from the ground, or bare metal, up. There are a preset sequence of events, numbered 00 to FF to go through. Each of them, properly documented, can tell a designer why his new system isn't working. And then there are a specific series of POST codes that can be useful to designers, when running supplied diagnostics.
At least that was the case, about ten years ago. It's been that long since I did that kind of work. The repairing of such systems, that is.
Okay, Ron, Richard, how did I do? ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message----- From: linuxbios-admin@clustermatic.org [mailto:linuxbios- admin@clustermatic.org] On Behalf Of Frank Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:55 PM To: jarcher; linuxbios@clustermatic.org Subject: Re:debugger
I don't mind getting dirty. as a matter of fact i prefer to work in the dirt. That's why I'm looking at linuxbios.:-) I come from a ppc and mips world where debuuger's are a lot more plentiful and cheaper. What is a "POST card"... --- jarcher jarcher@pobox.com wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
At 12:00 PM 5/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank frannk_m1@yahoo.com Subject: Re: debugger To: ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov Cc: linuxbios@clustermatic.org
sis55x SOC x86 based --- ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, Frank wrote:
Can anyone recommend a debugger for bringing up
LinuxBios on
an
x86 system...
what kind of chip? and how much money can you spend?
ron
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Got it. I use the same technique with boards that have multiple (4 or more) led's. I can write a value to the led to tell me where i am in the code. Where can i get a POST card from... --- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net wrote:
Hello from Gregg C Levine A POST card? How to explain simply... A POST card, was created, (Or designed), to display the activities of the computer, through Port 80, while it works from power on, the final prompt. The term POST means, Power On Self Test. It descends from the original IBM-PC world. They are very useful, in this world, because we are creating the next generation BIOS from the ground, or bare metal, up. There are a preset sequence of events, numbered 00 to FF to go through. Each of them, properly documented, can tell a designer why his new system isn't working. And then there are a specific series of POST codes that can be useful to designers, when running supplied diagnostics.
At least that was the case, about ten years ago. It's been that long since I did that kind of work. The repairing of such systems, that is.
Okay, Ron, Richard, how did I do?
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."� Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message----- From: linuxbios-admin@clustermatic.org [mailto:linuxbios- admin@clustermatic.org] On Behalf Of Frank Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:55 PM To: jarcher; linuxbios@clustermatic.org Subject: Re:debugger
I don't mind getting dirty. as a matter of fact i prefer to
work
in the dirt. That's why I'm looking at linuxbios.:-) I come from a ppc and mips world where debuuger's are a lot
more
plentiful and cheaper. What is a "POST card"... --- jarcher jarcher@pobox.com wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you
want to
get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus
cycles
or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two
are
expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is
usually
the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective
pictures of
events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE
for
their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger?
Early
BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
At 12:00 PM 5/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank frannk_m1@yahoo.com Subject: Re: debugger To: ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov Cc: linuxbios@clustermatic.org
sis55x SOC x86 based --- ron minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, Frank wrote:
Can anyone recommend a debugger for bringing up
LinuxBios on
an
x86 system...
what kind of chip? and how much money can you spend?
ron
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com
On Thu, 15 May 2003, jarcher wrote:
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
I've looked into it, but it's a bit complex to have up at that point (at least with the regular UHCI and OHCI). At the least, it will require RAM and a portion of PCI to be up and running. At that point, might as well just put it in the C code after PCI init.
G'day, sjames
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 01:23, jarcher wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
BTW, why didn't we come up with a GDB stub in LinuxBIOS ??
ollie lho ollie@sis.com.tw writes:
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 01:23, jarcher wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through the code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
BTW, why didn't we come up with a GDB stub in LinuxBIOS ??
Primarily no one submitted it?. Someone reportedly wrote one a while ago.
Admittedly I don't think I would every use it, as I don't see the point. Except for the resource allocation code practically everything in LinuxBIOS is pretty trivial straight forward code. And it should remain so.
Eric
It might be helpful in debugging the stuff that get loaded after the core BIOS runs.
Jordan
At 08:39 PM 5/15/2003 -0600, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
ollie lho ollie@sis.com.tw writes:
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 01:23, jarcher wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling
through the
code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS
or at
least just prior to payload decompress.
BTW, why didn't we come up with a GDB stub in LinuxBIOS ??
Primarily no one submitted it?. Someone reportedly wrote one a while ago.
Admittedly I don't think I would every use it, as I don't see the point. Except for the resource allocation code practically everything in LinuxBIOS is pretty trivial straight forward code. And it should remain so.
Eric
jarcher jarcher@pobox.com writes:
It might be helpful in debugging the stuff that get loaded after the core BIOS runs.
It might be easier to just put the debugging stubs in the payload.
But again I'm not against it (unless it clusters the code). I just don't think I will use it.
Eric
On Thu, 15 May 2003, jarcher wrote:
It might be helpful in debugging the stuff that get loaded after the core BIOS runs.
I mostly saw it as a useful learning tool for people trying to follow the code.
ron
It might be helpful for other developers who are not used to debugging at the firmware level. I don't know what the theme of LinuxBIOS is meant to be, but an optional debugger would probably make it easier for others to adopt LinuxBIOS use. Loading a payload OS core image would be nice through GDB.
Jordan
At 08:27 AM 5/16/2003 -0600, ron minnich wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, jarcher wrote:
It might be helpful in debugging the stuff that get loaded after the core BIOS runs.
I mostly saw it as a useful learning tool for people trying to follow the code.
ron
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 22:27, ron minnich wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, jarcher wrote:
It might be helpful in debugging the stuff that get loaded after the core BIOS runs.
I mostly saw it as a useful learning tool for people trying to follow the code.
Can we make the gdb stub reuseable as linuxbios_table or ELF loader stuff ? In this way, both LinuxBIOS and the payload (BLOB ?) can be debugged.
I'm going to look at doing that over the next week or so.
Jordan
At 10:17 AM 5/21/2003 +0800, ollie lho wrote:
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 22:27, ron minnich wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2003, jarcher wrote:
It might be helpful in debugging the stuff that get loaded after the
core
BIOS runs.
I mostly saw it as a useful learning tool for people trying to follow the code.
Can we make the gdb stub reuseable as linuxbios_table or ELF loader stuff ? In this way, both LinuxBIOS and the payload (BLOB ?) can be debugged.
-- ollie lho ollie@sis.com.tw
On 16 May 2003, ollie lho wrote:
BTW, why didn't we come up with a GDB stub in LinuxBIOS ??
somebody did this, and I asked for the patches but I don't think I ever got them.
ron
I was curious about that one also.
Jordan
At 09:55 AM 5/16/2003 +0800, ollie lho wrote:
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 01:23, jarcher wrote:
To add to Ron's message.
It varies a lot with your experience and how dirty you want to get.
A simple POST card and a lot of creative POST code bread crumbs is the cheap and dirty way to go, until you get the serial port debugger up and running. But it requires you to be really creative in crawling through
the
code. And takes a lot of time.
But you can move up the a logic analyzer looking at bus cycles or an ICE (in circuit emulator) looking at CPU activity These two are expensive (lots of $10K), but you can often rent them. Setup is usually the time burner here. But with a LA you can take selective pictures of events chained together in time. I don't know if SIS has an ICE for their SOC products.
Jordan
PS: Has anyone done a USB interface low level debugger? Early BIOS or at least just prior to payload decompress.
BTW, why didn't we come up with a GDB stub in LinuxBIOS ??
-- ollie lho ollie@sis.com.tw
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