There was a talk about the registration process on the wiki and the bugtracker. At the moment its not possible to register and use both systems for example after 2 minutes. Typical user when they want to make a quick edit in a wiki or report a bug are willing to spend around 5 minutes. This include registration and reporting/editing. This is the typical usecase. Because many people normaly did not edit a webpage regulary but want to make a change once, wikipedia for example have made the great solution to just have to press edit button. The change is then beeing reviewed by some wikipedia editor and confirmed. This can take on some pages also a month of time - but that does not matter that much because the information is been produced and its there.
The coreboot maintainer agreed that the recent registration process should be changed. There was a talk about to use a irc bot + webchat for that instead of the more common captcha. I think IRC would not be something that all people understand directly but ok, it would be still better then the solution we have now.
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users. There are people that run TOR exit nodes at home. Those people are providing great diversity for having a non centrialized TOR network. Freenode is a terrible example of a network that is blocking people who try to give everyone on the world free internet access. Please do not use freenode if you implement such a IRC-registration process. Please run your own IRC server for such things to not block any IP on this world. IP- or port-blocking is discrimination of usecases and it is a bad example of not following the net neutrality. Net neutrality is important. Please dont move coreboot into the situation that you cant register because of broken net neutrality.
On 10/31/2017 10:50 AM, dz6g239@tuta.io wrote:
The coreboot maintainer agreed that the recent registration process should be changed. There was a talk about to use a irc bot + webchat for that instead of the more common captcha. I think IRC would not be something that all people understand directly but ok, it would be still better then the solution we have now.
Yeah, re-captcha uses browser fingerprinting and supports AI research so it isn't a good choice.
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users. There are people that run TOR exit nodes at home. Those people are providing great diversity for having a non centrialized TOR network. Freenode is a terrible example of a network that is blocking people who try to give everyone on the world free internet access. Please do not use freenode if you implement such a IRC-registration process. Please run your own IRC server for such things to not block any IP on this world. IP- or port-blocking is discrimination of usecases and it is a bad example of not following the net neutrality. Net neutrality is important. Please dont move coreboot into the situation that you cant register because of broken net neutrality.
Yeah agreed - freenode sucks, they block VPN's even the one they advertise on their homepage.
Those people are providing great diversity for having a non
centralized TOR network.
In sincere hope that TOR network will change (for the much better) state of Humanity, as it appears not to be in great shape in these modern times, after all!
Zoran
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:50 PM, dz6g239@tuta.io wrote:
There was a talk about the registration process on the wiki and the bugtracker. At the moment its not possible to register and use both systems for example after 2 minutes. Typical user when they want to make a quick edit in a wiki or report a bug are willing to spend around 5 minutes. This include registration and reporting/editing. This is the typical usecase. Because many people normaly did not edit a webpage regulary but want to make a change once, wikipedia for example have made the great solution to just have to press edit button. The change is then beeing reviewed by some wikipedia editor and confirmed. This can take on some pages also a month of time - but that does not matter that much because the information is been produced and its there.
The coreboot maintainer agreed that the recent registration process should be changed. There was a talk about to use a irc bot + webchat for that instead of the more common captcha. I think IRC would not be something that all people understand directly but ok, it would be still better then the solution we have now.
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users. There are people that run TOR exit nodes at home. Those people are providing great diversity for having a non centrialized TOR network. Freenode is a terrible example of a network that is blocking people who try to give everyone on the world free internet access. Please do not use freenode if you implement such a IRC-registration process. Please run your own IRC server for such things to not block any IP on this world. IP- or port-blocking is discrimination of usecases and it is a bad example of not following the net neutrality. Net neutrality is important. Please dont move coreboot into the situation that you cant register because of broken net neutrality.
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
On 31.10.2017 15:50, dz6g239@tuta.io wrote:
There was a talk about the registration process on the wiki and the bugtracker. [...]
The coreboot maintainer agreed that the recent registration process should be changed. There was a talk about to use a irc bot + webchat for that instead of the more common captcha.[...]
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users.
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat contradicts your claims. There are loads of people on the net disagreeing with you as well, and there are even HowTos: https://medium.com/@defcon201/tutorial-connecting-to-freenode-via-tor-like-a...
So... have you actually tried it?
Regards, Carl-Daniel
dz6g239@tuta.io wrote:
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users.
..
Net neutrality is important. Please dont move coreboot into the situation that you cant register because of broken net neutrality.
This is a good point, thanks for bringing it up.
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat contradicts your claims.
Quoting that page, "The hidden service requires SASL authentication."
Requiring authentication clearly goes against the spirit of both Tor and net neutrality; so depending on freenode services to authenticate contributions turns out to be a bad idea.
But handling spam takes effort, which in turn takes (time || money), and there is no technical one-shot solution. At a minimum it requires recurring engineering on the order of a few days every few months.
There is indeed a tradeoff here, between accessibility and cost.
I would like a two-tier system of authenticated reviewers like on Wikipedia very much, and as a minimum-effort one-shot solution I think that would last the longest time, but it still needs to be implemented.
Wiki admins: Would that need more effort than IRC integration?
//Peter
Peter Stuge transcribed 1.3K bytes:
dz6g239@tuta.io wrote:
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users.
..
Net neutrality is important. Please dont move coreboot into the situation that you cant register because of broken net neutrality.
This is a good point, thanks for bringing it up.
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat contradicts your claims.
Quoting that page, "The hidden service requires SASL authentication."
Requiring authentication clearly goes against the spirit of both Tor and net neutrality; so depending on freenode services to authenticate contributions turns out to be a bad idea.
But handling spam takes effort, which in turn takes (time || money), and there is no technical one-shot solution. At a minimum it requires recurring engineering on the order of a few days every few months.
There is indeed a tradeoff here, between accessibility and cost.
At secushare we are using psyced (a visible implementation of the PSYC 0.99/1 protocol is running at psyed.org for almost 2 decades now) as a daily chat server, accessible via webchat, irc, ircs, telnet, xmpp, etc through tor and through "clearnet". Through my time spend on various IRC centric networks I have found no better solution, IRC is fundamentally broken. The mufhd0 network which A/I (Autistici/Inventati) runs requires no checks for tor users, aswell as the hackint network (or at least they used to, no idea what hackint is doing these days), and psyced.org. There are some more networks and servers like this, but their number is small.
I would like a two-tier system of authenticated reviewers like on Wikipedia very much, and as a minimum-effort one-shot solution I think that would last the longest time, but it still needs to be implemented.
Wiki admins: Would that need more effort than IRC integration?
//Peter
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
ng0 transcribed 3.7K bytes:
Peter Stuge transcribed 1.3K bytes:
dz6g239@tuta.io wrote:
But please dont use freenode irc or any other IRC server that are blocking TOR users.
..
Net neutrality is important. Please dont move coreboot into the situation that you cant register because of broken net neutrality.
This is a good point, thanks for bringing it up.
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/chat contradicts your claims.
Quoting that page, "The hidden service requires SASL authentication."
Requiring authentication clearly goes against the spirit of both Tor and net neutrality; so depending on freenode services to authenticate contributions turns out to be a bad idea.
But handling spam takes effort, which in turn takes (time || money), and there is no technical one-shot solution. At a minimum it requires recurring engineering on the order of a few days every few months.
There is indeed a tradeoff here, between accessibility and cost.
At secushare we are using psyced (a visible implementation of the PSYC 0.99/1 protocol is running at psyed.org for almost 2 decades now) as a daily chat server, accessible via webchat, irc, ircs, telnet, xmpp, etc through tor and through "clearnet". Through my time spend on various IRC centric networks I have found no better solution, IRC is fundamentally broken. The mufhd0 network which A/I (Autistici/Inventati) runs requires no checks for tor users, aswell as the hackint network (or at least they used to, no idea what hackint is doing these days), and psyced.org. There are some more networks and servers like this, but their number is small.
Please disregard my comment, I've re-read the original post.
I would like a two-tier system of authenticated reviewers like on Wikipedia very much, and as a minimum-effort one-shot solution I think that would last the longest time, but it still needs to be implemented.
Wiki admins: Would that need more effort than IRC integration?
//Peter
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
-- ng0 GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 GnuPG: https://dist.ng0.infotropique.org/dist/keys/ https://www.infotropique.org https://ng0.infotropique.org
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org https://mail.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Am Do., 2. Nov. 2017 um 14:14 Uhr schrieb Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se:
Wiki admins: Would that need more effort than IRC integration?
JFYI: This thread is the first time I hear about such ideas, and I kinda administrate the wiki. So there's that.
Patrick
-
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
dz6g239＠tuta.io -
ng0 -
Patrick Georgi -
Peter Stuge -
Taiidan＠gmx.com -
Zoran Stojsavljevic