On 02.05.2017 16:20, ron minnich wrote:
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 3:54 AM Nico Huber nico.huber@secunet.com wrote:
You sound much like their advertisement.
OK, I'm done here. Have a nice project everyone. When people start making statements like this and accusing the project of being corrupt, it's time to stop reading a list.
Sorry Ron, I didn't write it to offend you. I just read their product page before writing that stupid statement above. And that page seemed to smash again empty promises into my face. That's no excuse for what I wrote, just trying to explain how it happened.
Please understand that talking about Purism may still reawake bad fee- lings. At the beginning they sold so much and shipped nothing. And people believe that they have drawn customers away from vendors who actually supported free firmware. By that, making people who wanted to pay for free firmware pay for proprietary firmware instead.
At least this is how I remember the story. Obviously we have a very dif- ferent view on it. And also how far x86 can be freed from blobs. I still hope Purism will, in the end, accomplish more than you say is possible.
Nico
On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:39 AM Nico Huber nico.h@gmx.de wrote:
Sorry Ron, I didn't write it to offend you.
No problem. It hurt a bit because I respect you so much :-)
I find that people's take on Purism varies depending on whether they have personally interacted with Todd or not. Up here in Mountain View we've had multiple meetings as we tried to provide guidance to Todd. From that experience I've come to believe that Purism, like so many of us when we started out, was extremely naive about what was possible, and made claims based on their lack of knowledge. But I also saw Todd working very hard to try to engage Intel, over a period of years. I saw a sincere effort to achieve their goals, coupled with a complete lack of knowledge about how much effort it was, which led to them making claims that could not be supported.
I hope they are cleaning up their claims. They made a lot of mistakes over the first few years, and were way too optimistic about how all this was going to work, which cost them a lot of trust, and that is their fault. Adding Youness was a good move, and has got them going in the right direction.
If anyone at Purism is listening, could you please take the time to talk to people from this group about your web site and the claims you are making?
From what Nico says, you're still overdoing it. It just makes you look bad
and you don't need that.
At the same time, we need to be realistic about what's going to be possible in x86 universe. And the answer, I'm afraid, is "less and less". I'm afraid blobs are a permanent part of the picture on any new x86 design, and if you don't like that (I don't) then it's time to find a new architecture to work on, as Tim and others are doing.
[Nico, this last part is not about what you said.] I realize feelings are strong about these issues, but calling people and projects "corrupt" is unacceptable and, in my view anyway, I'd like people who say such things to find another project. I watched the Plan 9 mailling list get destroyed by a few bad actors and I don't want to see that happen here.
Thanks
ron
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Nico Huber -
ron minnich