Re: [LinuxBIOS] [RFC] Call for Action: LinuxBIOS foundations

[Robert Vogel]

If there are one million computers running LinuxBios, are they dedicated to 
server farms ?

...or can they be used as desktop machines ?

Who are the leading vendors of such machines ?

Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefan Reinauer" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [LinuxBIOS] [RFC] Call for Action: LinuxBIOS foundations
> [e-mail]  [070829 11:39]:
> > Quoting Stefan Reinauer :
> > > I personally think we need to support more newer hardware in shorter
> > > time to gain the momentum so LinuxBIOS can become the default firmware
> > > on new mainboards that you buy. We can make this goal, and it has been
> > > done in some cases. It's just a long way, as it was for Linux, too.
> >
> > That would be _REALLY_ great but is this realistic?..
>
> It is the only realistic scenario for LinuxBIOS becoming wide-spread
> and, no doubt, we have been pretty successful so far. More than one
> million computers out there are running LinuxBIOS. This is a far higher
> number than a usual charge of mainboards produced by a manufacturer in a
> series.
>
> Unlike Linux, LinuxBIOS can not be "just tried with a live CD" or
> something. So either it gets pre-installed or it will be something only
> technically skilled people will ever use.
> > Maybe this is sligtly off topic here (and a little bit paranoid..), but 
> > when one
> > consider the fact that "trusted computing" becomes more and more 
> > prevalent in
> > new systems (mandatory soon maybe?!), doesn't this outright kill the LB 
> > project?
>
> The opposite is the case. LinuxBIOS is the _only_ chance out there that
> allows controlling the restrictions. It does not restrict the vendor in
> controlling the "bootblock" -- Since there is no such thing as the
> bootblock in LinuxBIOSv2, I wonder what the technical meaning of that
> part of the specification is supposed to be.
>
> Stefan

[LinuxBIOS] [RFC] Call for Action: LinuxBIOS foundations

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 09:39:10AM -0400, Robert Vogel wrote:
> > > Maybe this is sligtly off topic here (and a little bit paranoid..), but 
> > > when one
> > > consider the fact that "trusted computing" becomes more and more 
> > > prevalent in
> > > new systems (mandatory soon maybe?!), doesn't this outright kill the LB 
> > > project?
> >
> > The opposite is the case. LinuxBIOS is the _only_ chance out there that
> > allows controlling the restrictions. It does not restrict the vendor in
> > controlling the "bootblock" -- Since there is no such thing as the
> > bootblock in LinuxBIOSv2, I wonder what the technical meaning of that
> > part of the specification is supposed to be.

I don't mean to start a flame but, uhm well I'll have to take the risk :-)

Have you considered the possiblity that LinuxBIOS is used for Tivoization?

[LinuxBIOS] [RFC] Call for Action: LinuxBIOS foundations

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Robert Millan  [070829 17:37]:
> I don't mean to start a flame but, uhm well I'll have to take the risk :-)
>
> Have you considered the possiblity that LinuxBIOS is used for Tivoization?

There are certain applications where you do not want the user to be able
to change the software running on a device. Like most things, this can
be used for good and for bad.

But it does not need LinuxBIOS to do bad things, nor is LinuxBIOS
specifically designed to enable people doing them.

Like vendors could use LinuxBIOS for Tivoization, a friendly government
could build a nuke controlled by an embedded system which is started by
LinuxBIOS because systems really should be operational in less than a
second. Creating innovation is not an appropriate method to prevent
such things. Sure it does not aid them either.

The opposite... if people do it with LinuxBIOS, we know at least what
happens ;)

my 0.02€

Stefan

[LinuxBIOS] [RFC] Call for Action: LinuxBIOS foundations

[Rasmus Wiman]

Robert Millan  wrote:
> Have you considered the possiblity that LinuxBIOS is used for
> Tivoization?

Anyway, anyone who insists on using LinuxBIOS to do evil things will
probably succeed. Apart from tivoization, you could probably construct
some hardware that runs LinuxBIOS but is essentially bricked until some
proprietary payload "unbricks" it.

As for controlling nukes, the license for AmigaOS stated that the
software must not be used to design, manufacture or control nuclear
weapons. Who knows, maybe that id why the Amiga went the way of the
dodo. :)

/Rasmus