Hi Oliver,
Oliver wrote:
I just found http://www.coreboot.org/AMD_Geode_Porting_Guide over on the wiki and was wondering if that was maybe slighlty outdated or not needed for a Wyse S10? The S10 uses similar hardware as the S50.
The wiki page is a little outdated.
Actually the only difference is that the S50 has 128kb onboard flash, so minor difference.
Are you sure ? Joseph reported that his S30 uses a cs5535 insted of the cs5536 on the S50.
E.g. If i just build for the S50 in make >menuconfig; I won't need to
read that page right? Also it mentions >padding etc on the VSA bin; I take it make menuconfig takes care of >that as well now? Yes,Coreboot is using Kconfig now and doesn`t need a manual adding and padding of the VSA. Only problem is, it seems there is no GX2 VSA on the internet available. I don`t want to discourage you, but there is still a bug in the oprom VSA loading introduced in rev5543 that affects Geodes GX2 and LX. (VSA loading crashes)
Greetings,Nils.
On 05/24/2010 04:36 PM, Nils wrote:
Hi Oliver,
Oliver wrote:
I just found http://www.coreboot.org/AMD_Geode_Porting_Guide over on the wiki and was wondering if that was maybe slighlty outdated or not needed for a Wyse S10? The S10 uses similar hardware as the S50.
The wiki page is a little outdated.
Actually the only difference is that the S50 has 128kb onboard flash, so minor difference.
Are you sure ? Joseph reported that his S30 uses a cs5535 insted of the cs5536 on the S50.
Yes my S30 has a GX2 and cs5535.From what I have read both the S30 and S50 are upgradable to the S10. It is just a bios and software upgrade.
On another note I just got a V30L, sweet little VIA C& machine....
Hope that helps.
On 05/25/10 00:16, Joseph Smith wrote:
On 05/24/2010 04:36 PM, Nils wrote:
Hi Oliver,
Oliver wrote:
I just found http://www.coreboot.org/AMD_Geode_Porting_Guide over on the wiki and was wondering if that was maybe slighlty outdated or not needed for a Wyse S10? The S10 uses similar hardware as the S50.
The wiki page is a little outdated.
Actually the only difference is that the S50 has 128kb onboard flash, so minor difference.
Are you sure ? Joseph reported that his S30 uses a cs5535 insted of the cs5536 on the S50.
Yes my S30 has a GX2 and cs5535.From what I have read both the S30 and S50 are upgradable to the S10. It is just a bios and software upgrade.
On another note I just got a V30L, sweet little VIA C& machine....
Hope that helps.
Hmm; I thought that the S10 was the most basic version :)
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 0 Flash/128MB RAM
As the S50 reads: Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 128MB Flash/256MB RAM
btw they use a gx in the spec instead of gx2; odd.
The S30 lists the same btw:
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 64MB Flash/128MB RAM
So besides the tool outputs etc etc I posted earlier; I'll take loads of pics. Do I need to pry off the CPU's heatsink for a pic of that? Since I don't know how to best re-attach it; id' like to postpone that.
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically means I can't use corebios on this thing yet? How did people do it on the S30 and more specifically the S50? The S50 does list as being supported, how?
Oliver
On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:45:47 +0200, Oliver Schinagl oliver@schinagl.nl wrote:
On 05/25/10 00:16, Joseph Smith wrote:
On 05/24/2010 04:36 PM, Nils wrote:
Hi Oliver,
Oliver wrote:
I just found http://www.coreboot.org/AMD_Geode_Porting_Guide over on the wiki and was wondering if that was maybe slightly outdated or not needed for a Wyse S10? The S10 uses similar hardware as the S50.
The wiki page is a little outdated.
Actually the only difference is that the S50 has 128kb onboard flash, so minor difference.
Are you sure ? Joseph reported that his S30 uses a cs5535 instead of the cs5536 on the S50.
Yes my S30 has a GX2 and cs5535.From what I have read both the S30 and S50 are upgradable to the S10. It is just a bios and software upgrade.
On another note I just got a V30L, sweet little VIA C& machine....
Hope that helps.
Hmm; I thought that the S10 was the most basic version :)
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 0 Flash/128MB RAM
So S10 has 0 flash??? Does it just PXE boot?
As the S50 reads: Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 128MB Flash/256MB RAM
btw they use a gx in the spec instead of gx2; odd.
Yes you will see that alot, the GX is actually the sucsesor to the GX1. Others will call it GX2 for clarification (me :-)).
The S30 lists the same btw:
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 64MB Flash/128MB RAM
S30 comes with different flash/ram combos. Mine has 32MB Flash/ 64MB RAM
So besides the tool outputs etc etc I posted earlier; I'll take loads of pics. Do I need to pry off the CPUs heatsink for a pic of that? Since I don't know how to best re-attach it; id' like to postpone that.
Yes I think this is a great idea :-) No need to take the heatsink off, we already know what the CPU is. I propose a new wiki page "Wyse Thin Clients" That we can upload pics too, and information about each system. I have 3 or 4 different models so a central info point would be cool. I would be glad to take lots of pics too.
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically means I can't use coreboot on this thing yet? How did people do it on the S30 and more specifically the S50? The S50 does list as being supported, how?
Don't worry about VSA too much, I am sure we can up with a solution when we get to that point.
On 05/25/10 13:07, Joseph Smith wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:45:47 +0200, Oliver Schinagl oliver@schinagl.nl wrote:
On 05/25/10 00:16, Joseph Smith wrote:
On 05/24/2010 04:36 PM, Nils wrote:
Hi Oliver,
Oliver wrote:
I just found http://www.coreboot.org/AMD_Geode_Porting_Guide over on the wiki and was wondering if that was maybe slightly outdated or not needed for a Wyse S10? The S10 uses similar hardware as the S50.
The wiki page is a little outdated.
Actually the only difference is that the S50 has 128kb onboard flash, so minor difference.
Are you sure ? Joseph reported that his S30 uses a cs5535 instead of the cs5536 on the S50.
Yes my S30 has a GX2 and cs5535.From what I have read both the S30 and S50 are upgradable to the S10. It is just a bios and software upgrade.
On another note I just got a V30L, sweet little VIA C& machine....
Hope that helps.
Hmm; I thought that the S10 was the most basic version :)
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 0 Flash/128MB RAM
So S10 has 0 flash??? Does it just PXE boot?
Well it has a 2MB Bios chip, so I suppose the Wyse OS lives in the biosflash area?
Other then that, it only supports RDP, ICA int he Wyse OS; booting it does from the following 3 options, IDE, PXE, USB. I'll take a foto of the bios, though it really isn't interesting at all.
As the S50 reads: Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 128MB Flash/256MB RAM
btw they use a gx in the spec instead of gx2; odd.
Yes you will see that alot, the GX is actually the sucsesor to the GX1. Others will call it GX2 for clarification (me :-)).
Ah! ok so there was GX1; and GX, but we call GX GX2 to make it sound as a successor, as it is. I know linux uses GX2 in it's naming.
The S30 lists the same btw:
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 64MB Flash/128MB RAM
S30 comes with different flash/ram combos. Mine has 32MB Flash/ 64MB RAM
I wonder where the flash is located at, in the bios chip, or if it's an IDE devices 'flash' thing.
So besides the tool outputs etc etc I posted earlier; I'll take loads of pics. Do I need to pry off the CPUs heatsink for a pic of that? Since I don't know how to best re-attach it; id' like to postpone that.
Yes I think this is a great idea :-) No need to take the heatsink off, we already know what the CPU is. I propose a new wiki page "Wyse Thin Clients" That we can upload pics too, and information about each system. I have 3 or 4 different models so a central info point would be cool. I would be glad to take lots of pics too.
Ok I'll do my best to make some nice pics of front/back of the pcb and some of the chips.
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically means I can't use coreboot on this thing yet? How did people do it on the S30 and more specifically the S50? The S50 does list as being supported, how?
Don't worry about VSA too much, I am sure we can up with a solution when we get to that point.
Ok. Atm I have compiled everything and it seemed to build after some tweaking fine; using the Wyse S50 mainboard.
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 64MB Flash/128MB RAM
S30 comes with different flash/ram combos. Mine has 32MB Flash/ 64MB RAM
I wonder where the flash is located at, in the bios chip, or if it's an IDE devices 'flash' thing.
Yes, there is a funny little connector (looks like something you would see in a laptop) connected to a 32MB IDE flash disk module. I can boot Linux over USB and in Linux it looks just like a IDE hard drive. The S30 only has a 256k bios chip. Only other difference is it has CS5535 southbridge with a VIA USB 2.0 chip.
So besides the tool outputs etc etc I posted earlier; I'll take loads
of
pics. Do I need to pry off the CPUs heatsink for a pic of that? Since I don't know how to best re-attach it; id' like to postpone that.
Yes I think this is a great idea :-) No need to take the heatsink off,
we
already know what the CPU is. I propose a new wiki page "Wyse Thin
Clients"
That we can upload pics too, and information about each system. I have 3
or
4 different models so a central info point would be cool. I would be
glad
to take lots of pics too.
Ok I'll do my best to make some nice pics of front/back of the pcb and some of the chips.
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically
means
I can't use coreboot on this thing yet? How did people do it on the S30 and more specifically the S50? The S50 does list as being supported,
how?
Don't worry about VSA too much, I am sure we can up with a solution when
we
get to that point.
Ok. Atm I have compiled everything and it seemed to build after some tweaking fine; using the Wyse S50 mainboard.
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
FYI, I plan on running Tiny Core Linux on my Wyse boxes once coreboot is up and running on them.
On 05/25/10 15:14, Joseph Smith wrote:
FYI, I plan on running Tiny Core Linux on my Wyse boxes once coreboot is up and running on them.
That scares me a little; is it not running on the S50 yet?
On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:31:52 +0200, Oliver Schinagl oliver@schinagl.nl wrote:
On 05/25/10 15:14, Joseph Smith wrote:
FYI, I plan on running Tiny Core Linux on my Wyse boxes once coreboot is
up
and running on them.
That scares me a little; is it not running on the S50 yet?
Not sure about S50 but S30 comes with WinCE on IDE flash disk. I can boot Fedora 12 Live spin from USB to Linux console, but craps out if I try to boot in graphics mode. Why does Tiny Core Linux scare you? It is only a 10MB OS...
On 05/25/10 16:04, Joseph Smith wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:31:52 +0200, Oliver Schinagl oliver@schinagl.nl wrote:
On 05/25/10 15:14, Joseph Smith wrote:
FYI, I plan on running Tiny Core Linux on my Wyse boxes once coreboot is
up
and running on them.
That scares me a little; is it not running on the S50 yet?
Not sure about S50 but S30 comes with WinCE on IDE flash disk. I can boot Fedora 12 Live spin from USB to Linux console, but craps out if I try to boot in graphics mode. Why does Tiny Core Linux scare you? It is only a 10MB OS...
Ah; it scared me because you said 'I plan to once coreboot is up' as in, core boot isn't working yet? :)
The S10 boots Wyse OS; a minimal desktop look a like with soem basic menus and runs RDP and ICA clients. So it's a PXE like box sorta.
The S10 runs Ubuntu 10.04 in GUI mode from the USB stick; though that is VESA mode i'm quite sure, so atleast vesa mode works properly :) I doubt the Geode video drivers do OpenGL anyway though.
On 05/25/10 14:29, Joseph Smith wrote:
Processor: AMD Geode GX 366MHz Memory: 64MB Flash/128MB RAM
S30 comes with different flash/ram combos. Mine has 32MB Flash/ 64MB RAM
I wonder where the flash is located at, in the bios chip, or if it's an IDE devices 'flash' thing.
Yes, there is a funny little connector (looks like something you would see in a laptop) connected to a 32MB IDE flash disk module. I can boot Linux over USB and in Linux it looks just like a IDE hard drive. The S30 only has a 256k bios chip. Only other difference is it has CS5535 southbridge with a VIA USB 2.0 chip.
44 pin mini IDE; the S10 has that aswell, THE reason I am speeding up my coreboot interest, the default bios boots from the IDE device just fine, however when it does not boot from the IDE device (or maybe even then?) it'll set the IDE interface to disabled from the bios and it won't detect/run any disks from the header. Might be to not confuse Wyse OS and try to export it? Who knows.
So I'm guessing, the S10 gives bigger bios chips (2MB) so wyse OS can reside there, and the S30-S50 use smaller bios chips (without Wyse OS) and Wyse OS (if at all) on the IDE flash.
The reason I'm after all this, is I have purchased 1G and 4G Disk on Flash module (e.g. a very very basic ssd)
So besides the tool outputs etc etc I posted earlier; I'll take loads
of
pics. Do I need to pry off the CPUs heatsink for a pic of that? Since I don't know how to best re-attach it; id' like to postpone that.
Yes I think this is a great idea :-) No need to take the heatsink off,
we
already know what the CPU is. I propose a new wiki page "Wyse Thin
Clients"
That we can upload pics too, and information about each system. I have 3
or
4 different models so a central info point would be cool. I would be
glad
to take lots of pics too.
Ok I'll do my best to make some nice pics of front/back of the pcb and some of the chips.
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically
means
I can't use coreboot on this thing yet? How did people do it on the S30 and more specifically the S50? The S50 does list as being supported,
how?
Don't worry about VSA too much, I am sure we can up with a solution when
we
get to that point.
Ok. Atm I have compiled everything and it seemed to build after some tweaking fine; using the Wyse S50 mainboard.
-- coreboot mailing list: coreboot@coreboot.org http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically means I can't use corebios on this thing yet?
Note coreboot, not corebios. coreboot isn't a BIOS. SeaBIOS can be used with coreboot to get a BIOS.
You can do some things also without VSA. VSA is used to create virtual PCI devices for among other things sound and graphics. However, a native graphics driver such as the one in libpayload or xf86-video-geode may not need VSA to drive the graphics hardware.
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
I wonder where the flash is located at, in the bios chip, or if it's an IDE devices 'flash' thing.
CS553x connects to either IDE or NAND and provides an IDE style programming interface to the software.
//Peter
On 05/25/10 14:32, Peter Stuge wrote:
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
Also not having a GX VSA is kinda really off-putting; it basically means I can't use corebios on this thing yet?
Note coreboot, not corebios. coreboot isn't a BIOS. SeaBIOS can be used with coreboot to get a BIOS.
Sorry, I should have been more carefull to be more clear. I intend to use Coreboot with either seabios payload or other.
You can do some things also without VSA. VSA is used to create virtual PCI devices for among other things sound and graphics. However, a native graphics driver such as the one in libpayload or xf86-video-geode may not need VSA to drive the graphics hardware.
I suppose I won't even need VSA? I intend on booting Linux only; so as long as that works, i'd be happy?
How does this virtual PCI device thing work? Or what should I imagine in that area? My mind draws a blank. I just know that usually your video chips is connected to the PCI bus. How would this all work on a virtual PCI bus?
If using seabios; would I need the VSA to draw the boot menu selection screen (assuming there exists such a thing even :)
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
I wonder where the flash is located at, in the bios chip, or if it's an IDE devices 'flash' thing.
CS553x connects to either IDE or NAND and provides an IDE style programming interface to the software.
//Peter
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
You can do some things also without VSA. VSA is used to create virtual PCI devices for among other things sound and graphics. However, a native graphics driver such as the one in libpayload or xf86-video-geode may not need VSA to drive the graphics hardware.
I suppose I won't even need VSA? I intend on booting Linux only; so as long as that works, i'd be happy?
I think Linux will need VSA to be happy though.
How does this virtual PCI device thing work?
See http://www.amd.com/files/connectivitysolutions/geode/geode_gx/32663C_lx_gx_p...
The VSA blob installs a System Management Mode handler which traps instructions that normally access PCI hardware, and they are instead handled by the VSA code, which responds like PCI hardware would.
Or what should I imagine in that area? My mind draws a blank. I just know that usually your video chips is connected to the PCI bus. How would this all work on a virtual PCI bus?
The Geode is a different architecture, it uses a different bus called GeodeLink, and provides PCI compatibility on top of that.
Drivers that understand GeodeLink directly (such as the X graphics driver) do not need the PCI compat stuff.
If using seabios; would I need the VSA to draw the boot menu selection screen (assuming there exists such a thing even :)
Actually it's even worse. You need a VGA BIOS for the CPU, and I don't know if there is a free one available. There was a GSoC project last year to create one, and there were patches that worked on Geode LX, but I'm not sure about the status on GX2.
Those patches were for the SeaBIOS VGA BIOS "subproject" and I don't know for sure if VSA is needed, but I would guess that it is.
//Peter
On 05/25/10 16:11, Peter Stuge wrote:
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
You can do some things also without VSA. VSA is used to create virtual PCI devices for among other things sound and graphics. However, a native graphics driver such as the one in libpayload or xf86-video-geode may not need VSA to drive the graphics hardware.
I suppose I won't even need VSA? I intend on booting Linux only; so as long as that works, i'd be happy?
I think Linux will need VSA to be happy though.
There isn't a way to excract the VSA from a running linux on the system is there? So if I would use setpci; i'd be actually changing things within the VSA; Hmm ... I was hoping I could use setpci to enable the IDE controller...
How does this virtual PCI device thing work?
See http://www.amd.com/files/connectivitysolutions/geode/geode_gx/32663C_lx_gx_p...
The VSA blob installs a System Management Mode handler which traps instructions that normally access PCI hardware, and they are instead handled by the VSA code, which responds like PCI hardware would.
Gonna read through that...
Or what should I imagine in that area? My mind draws a blank. I just know that usually your video chips is connected to the PCI bus. How would this all work on a virtual PCI bus?
The Geode is a different architecture, it uses a different bus called GeodeLink, and provides PCI compatibility on top of that.
Drivers that understand GeodeLink directly (such as the X graphics driver) do not need the PCI compat stuff.
Kinda makes sense, as the GPU is built in anyway; what about Net/Audio devices? They would have regular PCI connections on the chips so the Geode would need some form of PCI connector for those devices and connect that then tot he geodelink? Probably in the pdf so i'll read that first :)
If using seabios; would I need the VSA to draw the boot menu selection screen (assuming there exists such a thing even :)
Actually it's even worse. You need a VGA BIOS for the CPU, and I don't know if there is a free one available. There was a GSoC project last year to create one, and there were patches that worked on Geode LX, but I'm not sure about the status on GX2.
Those patches were for the SeaBIOS VGA BIOS "subproject" and I don't know for sure if VSA is needed, but I would guess that it is.
//Peter
How about extracting the bios using /dev/iomem + /dev/mem such as mentioned ont he Obtaining a VGA Bios wiki page?
Oliver Schinagl wrote:
I think Linux will need VSA to be happy though.
There isn't a way to excract the VSA from a running linux on the system is there?
Try using flashrom to read the BIOS image. Then you could try using bios_extract to take it apart, and you should get a VSA image. Not redistributable, but should work for you.
So if I would use setpci; i'd be actually changing things within the VSA; Hmm ... I was hoping I could use setpci to enable the IDE controller...
There's also some firmware interaction there. And if you're unlucky, there's a special limitation in VSA about the controller.
Drivers that understand GeodeLink directly (such as the X graphics driver) do not need the PCI compat stuff.
Kinda makes sense, as the GPU is built in anyway; what about Net/Audio devices?
Audio is built-in, same situation as for graphics. VSA needed for legacy compatibility, but I believe BSD at least has a native driver for it.
They would have regular PCI connections on the chips so the Geode would need some form of PCI connector for those devices and connect that then tot he geodelink?
That's basically how it works. A PCI-compatible bus is created with help from the CS553x companion chip.
How about extracting the bios using /dev/iomem + /dev/mem such as mentioned ont he Obtaining a VGA Bios wiki page?
Try flashrom+bios_extract first, ideally it'll also get you the VGA BIOS, which you must have since VESA graphics works.
//Peter
-
Joseph Smith -
Nils -
Oliver Schinagl -
Peter Stuge