Open source project, braindead "leaders"

[Noone Nowhere]

Coreboot Systems GmbH is just a new AMI-Phoenix ?.

OK, we did not get a Wiki account "_yet_", as YOU ARE DEFINITELY SURE
IT WILL BE WASTED!!!
You don't get it, do you?
The things we prepared  for coreboot REQUIRE Wiki acount.
Since you judge with no facts(you bet against us, without even knowing
us), you aren't getting a thing, it's your right to see in the past
and ignoring the future!!!

To set things right, the initial wiki requests were sent to rminnich
at gmail.com at 20 and 21 December 2007.
The one sent on the 21st was answered at December 26.The Wiki is
closed for non company employees.
After all, see what anyone has offered/ will offer and remove the
account if it just wastes space.

To inform you, the really silly patch (a typo really, but really
stupid to make) we sent was the easiest we could catch in order to
test your response and attitude towards other developers, as the
refusal of giving a wiki account in the first place set us thinking.

YOU REALLY SUCK!!!
EVERY CONTRIBUTION WE HAVE PREPARED BUT NOT SENT IS SUSPENDED.
EVERY DEVELOPER CAN BE BETTER THAN YOU, YOU CANNOT JUDGE UNTIL YOU SEE
WAS HE/SEE HAS TO GIVE.
WE WILL ALSO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE MAILING LIST SOON.
No wonder why only 30+ mobos are opened up and not 100+, you are
uncooperative with the rest of world (outside of your company).

Remember your words, as you will hear about us again.Only time will
show whether we deserved it and didn't take it or you were too narrow
minded...Time is too precious to waste it for your shit.

Finally, we never beg anyone and for nothing, whether the name is
Western Digital,Seagate,Hitachi,Coresystems,Intel,nVIDIA,ATi.
We always DEMAND AND ALWAYS GET WHAT WE WANT.
That's why we wanted to help you dorks, never mind...

[Joseph Smith]

Get a life! Stop wasting our time, reading this garbage!!!

P.S. your email address is going on my blacklist!

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

On 15.06.2009 13:04, Noone Nowhere wrote:
> YOU REALLY SUCK!!!
> WE WILL ALSO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE MAILING LIST SOON.

Please do. We want a friendly atmosphere here.

Regards,
Carl-Daniel

[Stefan Reinauer]

On 15.06.2009 13:04 Uhr, Noone Nowhere wrote:
> Coreboot Systems GmbH is just a new AMI-Phoenix ?.

First of all, there is coresystems GmbH and coreboot, not  a "coreboot
systems GmbH".
> OK, we did not get a Wiki account "_yet_", as YOU ARE DEFINITELY SURE
> IT WILL BE WASTED!!!
> You don't get it, do you?
> The things we prepared  for coreboot REQUIRE Wiki acount.
> Since you judge with no facts(you bet against us, without even knowing
> us), you aren't getting a thing, it's your right to see in the past
> and ignoring the future!!!

Exactly that's the point: We do not know you. Those people who got a
wiki-account have proved that they made valuable contributions to
coreboot _before_ and disclosed their identity and - very important -
the members of the community are polite and respectful with each other.

We see no need to setup wiki accounts for people from "noone nowhere".
Contributions can also be made without having an own wiki account, so
it's not required.
> To set things right, the initial wiki requests were sent to rminnich
> at gmail.com at 20 and 21 December 2007.
> The one sent on the 21st was answered at December 26.The Wiki is
> closed for non company employees.

This is not correct. There are approx. 100 people who have a wiki
account - thereof two employees of coresystems GmbH.
> YOU REALLY SUCK!!!

This is not the sound we want to cultivate in the coreboot community and
we hesitate to setup wiki accounts for people showing such diction even
more.
> EVERY CONTRIBUTION WE HAVE PREPARED BUT NOT SENT IS SUSPENDED.
> EVERY DEVELOPER CAN BE BETTER THAN YOU, YOU CANNOT JUDGE UNTIL YOU SEE
> WAS HE/SEE HAS TO GIVE.

I did not judge anything becauce I have never seen what you had (or
pretended to have) to give.
> WE WILL ALSO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE MAILING LIST SOON.

Let me know if you need help. I will gladly assist you.
> We always DEMAND AND ALWAYS GET WHAT WE WANT.

But for sure no wiki account for the coreboot project.

Thanks,
Stefan

[Paul Menzel]

Dear coreboot hackers, Ioannis and Nikos,

I would urge everyone to take a deep breath and calm down. Those posts
definitely do not benefit everyone and in my opinion this situation does
not benefit coreboot at all.

I hope you all can see this as a big misunderstanding since most of the
time English is not the mother tongue – as you can see from my messages
to the list – and electronic mail has also a lot of room for
interpretation because you cannot see the writer in front of you and as
several people already pointed out, we do not know each other and their
habbits.

Am Montag, den 15.06.2009, 14:21 +0200 schrieb Stefan Reinauer:
> On 15.06.2009 13:04 Uhr, Noone Nowhere wrote:
> > Coreboot Systems GmbH is just a new AMI-Phoenix ?.
>
> First of all, there is coresystems GmbH and coreboot, not  a "coreboot
> systems GmbH".
> > OK, we did not get a Wiki account "_yet_", as YOU ARE DEFINITELY SURE
> > IT WILL BE WASTED!!!
> > You don't get it, do you?
> > The things we prepared  for coreboot REQUIRE Wiki acount.
> > Since you judge with no facts(you bet against us, without even knowing
> > us), you aren't getting a thing, it's your right to see in the past
> > and ignoring the future!!!
>
> Exactly that's the point: We do not know you. Those people who got a
> wiki-account have proved that they made valuable contributions to
> coreboot _before_ and disclosed their identity and - very important -
> the members of the community are polite and respectful with each other.
>
> We see no need to setup wiki accounts for people from "noone nowhere".
> Contributions can also be made without having an own wiki account, so
> it's not required.
> > To set things right, the initial wiki requests were sent to rminnich
> > at gmail.com at 20 and 21 December 2007.
> > The one sent on the 21st was answered at December 26.The Wiki is
> > closed for non company employees.
>
> This is not correct. There are approx. 100 people who have a wiki
> account - thereof two employees of coresystems GmbH.

As far as I understood Ioannis and Nikos got a reply (from Ron?) that
said the wiki is closed or at least interpreted it in this way.

Ioannis and Nikos if you do not want to disclose certain information to
the list, maybe you could write again a message to Stefan or Ron with a
short note why you need the wiki account. (For example, you do not want
to release a new option without documenting it.)

Please write this mail with your real names in it and maybe a little
background information. At least Stefan has a GPG key available for his
address for (almost) secure communication.

[some insult]

Ioannis and Nikos, I am no developer and I am just reading this list,
but I assure you the coreboot developers are really good and nice people
and it was never their intention to insult you or imply something about
your skills by denying the Wiki account. I think, they just wanted
another email with your real names and a little bit background.

In German I would say: “Springt über Euren Schatten!”. So please
everyone, forget what happened and start over for the benefit of this
awesome project.

Thanks,

Paul

[ron minnich]

here is the sum total of the messages I have from ionnas (none from
his brother).
===============

Ioannis Barkas
 to me

show details 12/19/07
Reply

Follow up message
Hello I would like to add some controllers without USB
debug port at:
http://www.linuxbios.org/EHCI_Debug_Port
, so I will need an account!

Imagine a world without AMI and Phoenix BIOSes...
=================================
and I said:
ron minnich
 to Ioannis

show details 12/20/07

Reply

Follow up message
can you tell me a bit more?

Thanks

ron

=================================
and he said:

Ioannis Barkas
 to me

show details 12/21/07

Reply

Follow up message
Hello, thanks for your reply.

I want to add a NEC PCI card and a chipset without
debug port...
===============================================
And I said:

show details 12/25/07

Reply

Follow up message
On Dec 21, 2007 3:35 AM, Ioannis Barkas  wrote:
> Hello, thanks for your reply.
>
> I want to add a NEC PCI card and a chipset without
> debug port...

So what do you need again?

thanks

ron
=================================================

And they said nothing more until june 12, 1.5 years later.

Note that there is nothing of any specificity in his note, no
indication that he has a clue as to what is on the web page or even
what chipset he is talking about. NEC PCI card? eh? What kind of card?
Chipset? Eh? what chipset? Why is he not more informative?

Sorry, but we can't just let anyone just come in and get a wiki
account. And, more to the point, they don't need it to add a NEC PCI
card. Still worse, they don't seem to understand that adding a new
chipset to the source code repo doesn't require a wiki account --
despite this very nice top level link written some years ago:
http://www.coreboot.org/Development_Guidelines

Now, finally, 1.5 years later we get a patch, which is fine, but it
comes with lots of whining and lots of unsubstantiated claims. 30
mainboards? These guys have more than I ever had, and I worked at a
money-filled DOE Lab!

Sorry, but every open source project has a high hurdle to newcomers
for a reason. If they wish to come back and talk to us minus the
insults, I am happy to have them back. But their current behaviour is
completely unacceptable.

Thanks

ron

[Joseph Smith]

> Sorry, but we can't just let anyone just come in and get a wiki
> account. And, more to the point, they don't need it to add a NEC PCI
> card. Still worse, they don't seem to understand that adding a new
> chipset to the source code repo doesn't require a wiki account --

Yes sounds pretty suspicious to me, I'd be very cautious if I got a request
for my site.
> Now, finally, 1.5 years later we get a patch, which is fine, but it
> comes with lots of whining and lots of unsubstantiated claims. 30
> mainboards? These guys have more than I ever had, and I worked at a
> money-filled DOE Lab!
>
> Sorry, but every open source project has a high hurdle to newcomers
> for a reason. If they wish to come back and talk to us minus the
> insults, I am happy to have them back. But their current behaviour is
> completely unacceptable.

Agreed, the current behaviour is in no way professional, I am quite turned
off.

[Tiago Marques]

Hi all,
Maybe an hacker of some sort? Definitely a strange/derranged behavior.
Best regards

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:23 PM, ron minnich  wrote:
> here is the sum total of the messages I have from ionnas (none from
> his brother).
> ===============
>
> Ioannis Barkas
>  to me
>
> show details 12/19/07
> Reply
>    Follow up message
>
> Hello I would like to add some controllers without USB
> debug port at:
> http://www.linuxbios.org/EHCI_Debug_Port
> , so I will need an account!
> Imagine a world without AMI and Phoenix BIOSes...
>
> and I said:
> ron minnich
>  to Ioannis
>
> show details 12/20/07
>
> Reply
>    Follow up message
>
> can you tell me a bit more?
>
> Thanks
>
> ron
>
> =================================
> and he said:
>
> Ioannis Barkas
>  to me
>
> show details 12/21/07
>
> Reply
>    Follow up message
>
> Hello, thanks for your reply.
>
> I want to add a NEC PCI card and a chipset without
> debug port...
> ===============================================
> And I said:
>
> show details 12/25/07
>
> Reply
>    Follow up message
>
> On Dec 21, 2007 3:35 AM, Ioannis Barkas  wrote:
> > Hello, thanks for your reply.
> >
> > I want to add a NEC PCI card and a chipset without
> > debug port...
>
> So what do you need again?
>
> thanks
> ron
>
> And they said nothing more until june 12, 1.5 years later.
>
> Note that there is nothing of any specificity in his note, no
> indication that he has a clue as to what is on the web page or even
> what chipset he is talking about. NEC PCI card? eh? What kind of card?
> Chipset? Eh? what chipset? Why is he not more informative?
>
> Sorry, but we can't just let anyone just come in and get a wiki
> account. And, more to the point, they don't need it to add a NEC PCI
> card. Still worse, they don't seem to understand that adding a new
> chipset to the source code repo doesn't require a wiki account --
> despite this very nice top level link written some years ago:
> http://www.coreboot.org/Development_Guidelines
>
> Now, finally, 1.5 years later we get a patch, which is fine, but it
> comes with lots of whining and lots of unsubstantiated claims. 30
> mainboards? These guys have more than I ever had, and I worked at a
> money-filled DOE Lab!
>
> Sorry, but every open source project has a high hurdle to newcomers
> for a reason. If they wish to come back and talk to us minus the
> insults, I am happy to have them back. But their current behaviour is
> completely unacceptable.
>
> Thanks
>
> ron

[ron minnich]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:04 AM, Noone Nowhere wrote:
> We always DEMAND AND ALWAYS GET WHAT WE WANT.

But you did not in this case. And you won't. So you don't. So you're
wrong. QED.

If you are worried that we will miss you, please don't trouble
yourselves on our account.

ron