Hello, I've gone over the instructions included on the website for the sis 630. I have a few questions on how I can do this if I am not using a sis 630 winfast mobo. I have a SBC sis530 based machine. I realize that this board is not supported but I also have the datasheet and don't mind the work that would be involved in adding support. Before I start on that though here are my question. It talks about replacing the bios chip with a DoC. I've looked at this board and what seems to me to be the bios chip is not the same shape as a DoC it is an AWARD and it is square. There is a DoC on the machine and it is rectangular. So there is no way to replace one with the other. Does that make this impossible? Or is it possible to flash the AWARD BIOS with the linuxbios code? Or, and I highly doubt this, since there is a DoC on the board can I simply remove the BIOS chip... Any suggestions? -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/ -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/ -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/ -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/ -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/
Greetings, It won't be possable to just remove the flash. However, you can flash LinuxBIOS itself onto the plcc (square) flash, and have it load the payload (kernel) from the DoC. It should be mostly a matter of determining where the DOC is mapped intp memory. G'day, sjames On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:
Hello, I've gone over the instructions included on the website for the sis 630. I have a few questions on how I can do this if I am not using a sis 630 winfast mobo. I have a SBC sis530 based machine. I realize that this board is not supported but I also have the datasheet and don't mind the work that would be involved in adding support. Before I start on that though here are my question. It talks about replacing the bios chip with a DoC. I've looked at this board and what seems to me to be the bios chip is not the same shape as a DoC it is an AWARD and it is square. There is a DoC on the machine and it is rectangular. So there is no way to replace one with the other. Does that make this impossible? Or is it possible to flash the AWARD BIOS with the linuxbios code? Or, and I highly doubt this, since there is a DoC on the board can I simply remove the BIOS chip...
Any suggestions?
-- -------------------------steven james, director of research, linux labs ... ........ ..... .... 230 peachtree st nw ste 701 the original linux labs atlanta.ga.us 30303 -since 1995 http://www.linuxlabs.com office 404.577.7747 fax 404.577.7743 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 01:54 PM, steven james wrote:
Greetings,
It won't be possable to just remove the flash. However, you can flash LinuxBIOS itself onto the plcc (square) flash, and have it load the payload (kernel) from the DoC. It should be mostly a matter of determining where the DOC is mapped intp memory.
Well that sounds promising. Although, if I don't get the linuxBIOS code just right, my machine is dead no? because I won't be able to get to a bootable floppy to restore the bios, and I cannot replace the bios chip with a known good one right? -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/ -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/
Greetings, If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC flash chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip. You will need either a non-conductive chip extractor. Boot under the normal BIOS, pull it, and insert the spare. Program, reboot. If it fails, re-insert the original and try again. Most of the boards in the project were developed that way. G'day, sjames On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 01:54 PM, steven james wrote:
Greetings,
It won't be possable to just remove the flash. However, you can flash LinuxBIOS itself onto the plcc (square) flash, and have it load the payload (kernel) from the DoC. It should be mostly a matter of determining where the DOC is mapped intp memory.
Well that sounds promising. Although, if I don't get the linuxBIOS code just right, my machine is dead no? because I won't be able to get to a bootable floppy to restore the bios, and I cannot replace the bios chip with a known good one right?
-- -------------------------steven james, director of research, linux labs ... ........ ..... .... 230 peachtree st nw ste 701 the original linux labs atlanta.ga.us 30303 -since 1995 http://www.linuxlabs.com office 404.577.7747 fax 404.577.7743 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, steven james wrote:
You will need either a non-conductive chip extractor. Boot under the normal BIOS, pull it, and insert the spare. Program, reboot. If it fails, re-insert the original and try again. Most of the boards in the project were developed that way.
note that most Radio Shack and Frye's sell these extractors. ron
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 05:59 PM, steven james wrote:
Greetings,
If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC flash chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.
Well I'd like to know if this is a socket. It doesn't seem like it to me... but I imagine with the right tool I would be removable. I have taken a picture with a web camera. It is a bad picture but I think it is clear enough that someone familiar with BIOS's would recognize it. So if you would be so kind as to check that would be great. the address is http://www.gnat.ca/photos/SBC.jpg . Let me know if it looks like a removable and I'll start getting the code up and ready to try. Just as a little description, the square piece in the middle is the AWARD PNP chip and directly below it is the DiscOnChip 2000. -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/ -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/
Hello from Gregg C Levine You are thinking of that square gizmo, with the blurry label on it? And above the Disk On Chip device? It might be, I've seen AWARD BIOS units jammed into PLCC type flash devices before, but its rather rare. That because EPROM, both flash, and the others exist in many styles. If it's wearing that label, then you've found it. See if you can identify the chip type as well, so you can replace it with a matching device. By the way, what was stored on the DOC, to begin with? And of course my favorite question of the week, "Where did you get this unit from?". ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message----- From: linuxbios-admin@clustermatic.org [mailto:linuxbios- admin@clustermatic.org] On Behalf Of Nathanael Noblet Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 12:52 AM To: steven james Cc: linuxbios@clustermatic.org Subject: Re: Question regarding instructions...
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 05:59 PM, steven james wrote:
Greetings,
If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC flash chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.
Well I'd like to know if this is a socket. It doesn't seem like it to me... but I imagine with the right tool I would be removable. I have taken a picture with a web camera. It is a bad picture but I think it is clear enough that someone familiar with BIOS's would recognize it. So if you would be so kind as to check that would be great. the address is http://www.gnat.ca/photos/SBC.jpg . Let me know if it looks like a removable and I'll start getting the code up and ready to try. Just as a little description, the square piece in the middle is the AWARD PNP chip and directly below it is the DiscOnChip 2000.
-- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4
T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368
-- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4
T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368
_______________________________________________ Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 11:07 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
Hello from Gregg C Levine You are thinking of that square gizmo, with the blurry label on it? And above the Disk On Chip device? It might be, I've seen AWARD BIOS units jammed into PLCC type flash devices before, but its rather rare.
That is the device. It says on it: AWARD copy 1998 PCI/PNP 586 230085332 I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS chip. It is in a square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and bottom, 7 on the left and right. Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can point me in the right direction...
That because EPROM, both flash, and the others exist in many styles. If it's wearing that label, then you've found it. See if you can identify the chip type as well, so you can replace it with a matching device. By the way, what was stored on the DOC, to begin with?
I think the DoC originally had just a basic DOS install (sys C:) type thing. The business I purchased it from wanted to show that the DoC was functional.
And of course my favorite question of the week, "Where did you get this unit from?".
A local place here in Calgary. The part is a PIA-671, PMMX 233 with pretty much everything you can imagine. CRT/flat panel, USB, key mouse, 3d AGP card,serial parallel etc... Manufacturer is Arbor, based in California I think. -- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4 T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368 http://www.gnat.ca/
Hello again from Gregg C Levine A PLCC device in simple terms is a square device, which contains pretty much the same thing, as the DIP packaged variant, sometimes there are a few extra pins on it. In that case, unless otherwise noted on that data sheet, they'd be Not Connected and noted as such. Typically this happens in the Intel market, that is parts made by them, or a second source from them, as with the processor market. For example if the part is a 27C512 EPROM, then its pinouts would be the same on both. Of course since you are certain that it is a flash device, as is ninety-percent of all BIOS devices out there, it would be a 28512 for example, if that part number exists. I'm just citing examples here, your own efforts such as using Google will be much more rewarding. I also urge you to obtain the data sheets for everything on that board, that is not wearing custom part numbers. If you really want to know, it will make this port that much more easier. Ron, if you are reading this, that is a good suggestion to insert into the revised FAQ, that will emerge RSN. I trust you will find this information rewarding, and exactly what you are in need of. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message----- From: Nathanael Noblet [mailto:nathanael@gnat.ca] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:41 AM To: gregg@levine.name Cc: Linuxbios; 'steven james' Subject: Re: Question regarding instructions...
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 11:07 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
Hello from Gregg C Levine You are thinking of that square gizmo, with the blurry label on it? And above the Disk On Chip device? It might be, I've seen AWARD BIOS units jammed into PLCC type flash devices before, but its rather rare.
That is the device. It says on it: AWARD copy 1998 PCI/PNP 586 230085332
I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS chip. It is in a square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and bottom, 7 on the left and right.
Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can point me in the right direction...
That because EPROM, both flash, and the others exist in many styles. If it's wearing that label, then you've found it. See if you can identify the chip type as well, so you can replace it with a matching device. By the way, what was stored on the DOC, to begin with?
I think the DoC originally had just a basic DOS install (sys C:) type thing. The business I purchased it from wanted to show that the DoC was functional.
And of course my favorite question of the week, "Where did you get this unit from?".
A local place here in Calgary. The part is a PIA-671, PMMX 233 with pretty much everything you can imagine. CRT/flat panel, USB, key mouse, 3d AGP card,serial parallel etc... Manufacturer is Arbor, based in California I think.
-- Nathanael Noblet Gnat Solutions 4604 Monterey Ave NW Calgary, AB T3B 5K4
T/F 403.288.5360 C 403.809.5368
On Fri, 2002-11-29 at 14:41, Nathanael Noblet wrote:
That is the device. It says on it: AWARD copy 1998 PCI/PNP 586 230085332
You should remove the label on the chip and you can see the real part number of it. It has nothing with any keywords like "AWARD".
I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS chip. It is in a square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and bottom, 7 on the left and right.
Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can point me in the right direction...
PLCC means Plastic J-Leaded Chip Carrier, which is a way to package IC chips. The pins (or legs ??) look like the character 'J' from side. Can you boot your board by the BIOS with Linux on IDE HD ?? Ollie
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:
I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS chip. It is in a square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and bottom, 7 on the left and right.
Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can point me in the right direction...
that's a plcc flash device. You've found it. ron
Greetings, Yep, that's a standard PLCC in a socket. Just as a quick tip, they are often quite tight. I like to extract and replace 4-5 times with power off on a new board just to 'break it in' so things go easy when hot swapping later. One further caution, in spite of being keyed, it is fairly easy to insert the chip backwards. Be sure to check it visually. If the chip heats up (it will if backwards), pull power quickly. G'day, sjames On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:
On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 05:59 PM, steven james wrote:
Greetings,
If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC flash chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.
Well I'd like to know if this is a socket. It doesn't seem like it to me... but I imagine with the right tool I would be removable. I have taken a picture with a web camera. It is a bad picture but I think it is clear enough that someone familiar with BIOS's would recognize it. So if you would be so kind as to check that would be great. the address is http://www.gnat.ca/photos/SBC.jpg . Let me know if it looks like a removable and I'll start getting the code up and ready to try. Just as a little description, the square piece in the middle is the AWARD PNP chip and directly below it is the DiscOnChip 2000.
-- -------------------------steven james, director of research, linux labs ... ........ ..... .... 230 peachtree st nw ste 701 the original linux labs atlanta.ga.us 30303 -since 1995 http://www.linuxlabs.com office 404.577.7747 fax 404.577.7743 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (5)
-
Gregg C Levine -
Nathanael Noblet -
ollie lho -
Ronald G. Minnich -
steven james