Here's a wacko idea: for systems that use LPC memory, you can use a "biossaviour" like plugin board, with not just flash but also a superio chip on it. Only useful for developers of course, not for the end user.
A great wacko idea! Where do we find which SuperIO chip is the LinuxBIOS favorite?
Maybe Maxim's SPI UARTs are the next logical hack. Anyone know if SPI-flash mobos also leaving off the RS-232 ports?
Drew
Another idea, there has been a lot of talk about homebrew LPC ROM emulators. It would not be much more work to make the emulator into a generic LPC analyzer. You could have it catch regular serial, or you could just have print_debug spew bytes to a specified I/O location. With careful design, high speed USB can keep up with the ~16MB/s you could spew to LPC. This would not end up costing much more than the SIO solution, the biggest cost is still the PCB/connectors (male PLCC).
On 11/30/06, Drew Lundsten drew.lundsten@ccpu.com wrote:
Here's a wacko idea: for systems that use LPC memory, you can use a "biossaviour" like plugin board, with not just flash but also a superio chip on it. Only useful for developers of course, not for the end user.
A great wacko idea! Where do we find which SuperIO chip is the LinuxBIOS favorite?
Maybe Maxim's SPI UARTs are the next logical hack. Anyone know if SPI-flash mobos also leaving off the RS-232 ports?
Drew
-- linuxbios mailing list linuxbios@linuxbios.org http://www.openbios.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
Tom Sylla wrote:
Another idea, there has been a lot of talk about homebrew LPC ROM emulators. It would not be much more work to make the emulator into a generic LPC analyzer. You could have it catch regular serial, or you could just have print_debug spew bytes to a specified I/O location. With careful design, high speed USB can keep up with the ~16MB/s you could spew to LPC. This would not end up costing much more than the SIO solution, the biggest cost is still the PCB/connectors (male PLCC).
The male PLCC can be bought for ~12 Eur in single quantities. I posted a link not so long ago, if you want I can dig it out.
Regards, Carl-Daniel
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
Tom Sylla wrote:
Another idea, there has been a lot of talk about homebrew LPC ROM emulators. It would not be much more work to make the emulator into a generic LPC analyzer. You could have it catch regular serial, or you could just have print_debug spew bytes to a specified I/O location. With careful design, high speed USB can keep up with the ~16MB/s you could spew to LPC. This would not end up costing much more than the SIO solution, the biggest cost is still the PCB/connectors (male PLCC).
The male PLCC can be bought for ~12 Eur in single quantities. I posted a link not so long ago, if you want I can dig it out.
My mail from "2006-10-25 18:34" contained a link to the vendor, but not to the device. Go to http://www.segor.de/ and enter "PLCC32-Steck" (without the quotes) in the search box on the left. Direct link to the search result: http://cgi.segor.de/user-cgi-bin/sidestep2.pl?foto=1&Q=PLCC32-Steck&...
@Stefan: Could you maybe order some and ship them to Tom Sylla so he can start building such a LPC ROM emulator?
Regards, Carl-Daniel
Tom Sylla wrote:
Another idea, there has been a lot of talk about homebrew LPC ROM emulators. It would not be much more work to make the emulator into a generic LPC analyzer. You could have it catch regular serial, or you could just have print_debug spew bytes to a specified I/O location. With careful design, high speed USB can keep up with the ~16MB/s you could spew to LPC. This would not end up costing much more than the SIO solution, the biggest cost is still the PCB/connectors (male PLCC).
For current Thincan (artecgroup/dbe61) development we are using our own designed dongles:
- LPC connector (the cable shouldn't be longer than 5cm/2 inch) - Altera Cyclone FPGA as the control part - 16 MB flash: 4x separate 4MB banks; chosen by jumpers (I can have 4 separate booting configs( LB/kernel/initrd) in one dongle) - chosen flash bank is seen as 1MB at boot, switched to 4MB mode by LinuxBIOS. After that you can address that 4MB by FILO as mem@0x.... - 4 digit LED display (POST code display + selftest) - miniUSB (by ftdi chip) for the programming flash banks - python script as programming tool
PCB is 8cm x 6cm, i have seen the case for that unit too :)
As much as I know this dongle were made available with initial price ca. €90 (in small quantities). I'd expect that such a thing (with somewhat different design) can't be much cheaper.
Indrek
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
For current Thincan (artecgroup/dbe61) development we are using our own designed dongles:
http://208.109.65.208/products/hardware-products/programmable-lpc-dongle.htm...
Very nice!
- LPC connector (the cable shouldn't be longer than 5cm/2 inch)
- Altera Cyclone FPGA as the control part
- 16 MB flash: 4x separate 4MB banks; chosen by jumpers (I can have 4
separate booting configs( LB/kernel/initrd) in one dongle)
- chosen flash bank is seen as 1MB at boot, switched to 4MB mode by
LinuxBIOS. After that you can address that 4MB by FILO as mem@0x....
- 4 digit LED display (POST code display + selftest)
- miniUSB (by ftdi chip) for the programming flash banks
- python script as programming tool
That's a serial emulation, right? How long does it take to program one bank?
PCB is 8cm x 6cm, i have seen the case for that unit too :)
As much as I know this dongle were made available with initial price ca. ?90 (in small quantities). I'd expect that such a thing (with somewhat different design) can't be much cheaper.
Is that EUR90 or USD90? Either way I agree - it's a good price! I want one. :)
Do you also have a PLCC adapter? I looked into the product sold by Segor (that Carl-Daniel linked to) and found that it's made by cab GmbH:
http://www.cabgmbh.com/englisch/index.cfm?fuseaction=elektronik&rubrik=S...
//Peter
Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
For current Thincan (artecgroup/dbe61) development we are using our own designed dongles:
http://208.109.65.208/products/hardware-products/programmable-lpc-dongle.htm...
Very nice!
Hm, there is even a web page. Nice to know :)
- LPC connector (the cable shouldn't be longer than 5cm/2 inch)
- Altera Cyclone FPGA as the control part
- 16 MB flash: 4x separate 4MB banks; chosen by jumpers (I can have 4
separate booting configs( LB/kernel/initrd) in one dongle)
- chosen flash bank is seen as 1MB at boot, switched to 4MB mode by
LinuxBIOS. After that you can address that 4MB by FILO as mem@0x....
- 4 digit LED display (POST code display + selftest)
- miniUSB (by ftdi chip) for the programming flash banks
- python script as programming tool
That's a serial emulation, right? How long does it take to program one bank?
Yes, it is emulation. It takes ca. 20 s to flash the 256K LinuxBIOS. Flashing a bigger binary takes proportionally more time. Usually I change one thing at a time (e.g. only kernel) so the need to flash the whole 4MB is quite rare.
PCB is 8cm x 6cm, i have seen the case for that unit too :)
As much as I know this dongle were made available with initial price ca. ?90 (in small quantities). I'd expect that such a thing (with somewhat different design) can't be much cheaper.
Is that EUR90 or USD90? Either way I agree - it's a good price!
EUR90.
I want one. :)
You are welcome! :) Guys from info@artecgroup.com can give you more information about that.
Do you also have a PLCC adapter?
Nope.
thanks, Indrek
I looked into the product sold by Segor (that Carl-Daniel linked to) and found that it's made by cab GmbH:
http://www.cabgmbh.com/englisch/index.cfm?fuseaction=elektronik&rubrik=S...
//Peter
Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
For current Thincan (artecgroup/dbe61) development we are using our own designed dongles:
http://208.109.65.208/products/hardware-products/programmable-lpc-dongle.htm...
Very nice!
- LPC connector (the cable shouldn't be longer than 5cm/2 inch)
- Altera Cyclone FPGA as the control part
- 16 MB flash: 4x separate 4MB banks; chosen by jumpers (I can have 4
separate booting configs( LB/kernel/initrd) in one dongle)
- chosen flash bank is seen as 1MB at boot, switched to 4MB mode by
LinuxBIOS. After that you can address that 4MB by FILO as mem@0x....
- 4 digit LED display (POST code display + selftest)
- miniUSB (by ftdi chip) for the programming flash banks
- python script as programming tool
That's a serial emulation, right? How long does it take to program one bank?
PCB is 8cm x 6cm, i have seen the case for that unit too :)
As much as I know this dongle were made available with initial price ca. ?90 (in small quantities). I'd expect that such a thing (with somewhat different design) can't be much cheaper.
Is that EUR90 or USD90? Either way I agree - it's a good price!
Hey, this is quite a wrong price (my information was outdated). The latest information from marketing department: - for current dongle and for current revision the price is EUR149 + VAT
It includes also the FPGA firmware (for registered dongle owners). Schematic design is freely downloadable (as detailed layout information).
Sorry for the mess with such a important thing as a price.
thanks, Indrek
I want one. :)
Do you also have a PLCC adapter? I looked into the product sold by Segor (that Carl-Daniel linked to) and found that it's made by cab GmbH:
http://www.cabgmbh.com/englisch/index.cfm?fuseaction=elektronik&rubrik=S...
//Peter
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 04:01:54PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
Is that EUR90 or USD90? Either way I agree - it's a good price!
Hey, this is quite a wrong price (my information was outdated). The latest information from marketing department:
- for current dongle and for current revision the price is EUR149 +
VAT
Aha! Well, that's still a pretty good price.
It includes also the FPGA firmware (for registered dongle owners).
As in the firmware source? As in I can modify it myself and reprogram my FPGA to do new things?
Could I also distribute a patch with my changes to other customers that want their FPGAs to do the same new things?
Then it's a very good price! :)
Schematic design is freely downloadable (as detailed layout information).
Yeah, I found it on your web site. This is also very nice to have!
Sorry for the mess with such a important thing as a price.
Don't worry, it wasn't a quote, only an indication. :)
//Peter
Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 04:01:54PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
Is that EUR90 or USD90? Either way I agree - it's a good price!
Hey, this is quite a wrong price (my information was outdated). The latest information from marketing department:
- for current dongle and for current revision the price is EUR149 +
VAT
Aha! Well, that's still a pretty good price.
It includes also the FPGA firmware (for registered dongle owners).
As in the firmware source? As in I can modify it myself and reprogram my FPGA to do new things?
Yes, you can get FPGA firmware VHDL source.
Could I also distribute a patch with my changes to other customers that want their FPGAs to do the same new things?
About the license for the source code - I don't have the proper inofrmation at moment to tell you.
Indrek
Then it's a very good price! :)
Schematic design is freely downloadable (as detailed layout information).
Yeah, I found it on your web site. This is also very nice to have!
Sorry for the mess with such a important thing as a price.
Don't worry, it wasn't a quote, only an indication. :)
//Peter
if you can change flash to SRAM that would be great.
YH
yhlu wrote:
if you can change flash to SRAM that would be great.
This could be possible I think.16Mbyte SRAM is a bit tough thing at first sight... but I am not the hardware parts specialist :)
If your dongle is permanently connected to USB and the power is derived from there then you can hold your stuff in SRAM forever :) This is not bad idea at all.
Indrek
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
- chosen flash bank is seen as 1MB at boot, switched to 4MB mode by
LinuxBIOS.
Can you explain how this works in more detail? Do you know if chipsets usually support >1MB?
//Peter
Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
- chosen flash bank is seen as 1MB at boot, switched to 4MB mode by
LinuxBIOS.
Can you explain how this works in more detail? Do you know if chipsets usually support >1MB?
I can't help here, sorry.
Indrek
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
- Altera Cyclone FPGA as the control part
Do you think it would be possible to make a firmware for the FPGA that also does reads-make-a-write and can signal them back to the Linux host?
The idea is similar to the JEDEC flash identifying method - a special sequence of reads at certain addresses are interpreted as a write and sent to the host.
//Peter
Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 01:26:31PM +0200, Indrek Kruusa wrote:
- Altera Cyclone FPGA as the control part
Do you think it would be possible to make a firmware for the FPGA that also does reads-make-a-write and can signal them back to the Linux host?
I'v heard several ideas about the usage and yes - this usb-serial emulated connection can be used for whatever communications between dongle and Linux host. Of course it depends on FPGA firmware. I am not aware about the possibilites to custom-program the FPGA (for one dongle). This sould be asked again from Artec Group guys.
Indrek
The idea is similar to the JEDEC flash identifying method - a special sequence of reads at certain addresses are interpreted as a write and sent to the host.
//Peter
-
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Drew Lundsten -
Indrek Kruusa -
Peter Stuge -
Tom Sylla -
yhlu