coreboot mailing list now gerrit-free

[Stefan Reinauer]

      Dear coreboot community,

it has been quite a while since we switched our version control system
to git + gerrit, and the incredible amount of emails has alienated one
or another person on this list, unfortunately. But help is finally here:

We switched all gerrit based email traffic over to a new mailing list:
coreboot-gerrit(a)coreboot.org. To prevent everybody's inbox to break down
due to not working filters, we decided to _not_ automatically subscribe
everybody to the new mailing list. Please do subscribe yourself, if you
are interested in all the commit messages and code reviews flying by.

In order to subscribe to the new list, please visit:
http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot-gerrit

Regards,
  coreboot admin team

[Paul Menzel]

      Dear Stefan,


Am Mittwoch, den 20.03.2013, 09:22 +0100 schrieb Stefan Reinauer:

  it has been quite a while since we switched our
version control system
 to git + gerrit, and the incredible amount of emails has alienated one
 or another person on this list, unfortunately. But help is finally here:
as far as I remember this was discussed over a year ago and the majority
preferred having just one list. As was brought up several times lately
this is not how the community is included in decision making in my
opinion. At least a prior notice would have been nice.

  We switched all gerrit based email traffic over to a
new mailing list:
 coreboot-gerrit(a)coreboot.org. To prevent everybody's inbox to break down
 due to not working filters, we decided to _not_ automatically subscribe
 everybody to the new mailing list. Please do subscribe yourself, if you
 are interested in all the commit messages and code reviews flying by.
 
 In order to subscribe to the new list, please visit:
 http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot-gerrit
So thanks to no prior announcement, people now missed some mails, all
subscribers wanting Gerrit messages have to subscribe again and set up
their filters which the opponents to one list did not want to do.

One question remains what to do with replies to Gerrit messages. Some
people do not use Gerrit for whatever reasons but do get Gerrit messages
and want to reply per email for whatever reason. Like bringing an issues
to broader attention or discussion. On what list should that happen? Or
should <coreboot(a)coreboot.org&gt; just be added to CC?


Thanks,

Paul

[Paul Menzel]

      Dear coreboot folks,


sorry for the grumpy tone. I should have waited until woken up fully.


Thanks,

Paul

[Stefan Reinauer]

      * Paul Menzel <paulepanter(a)users.sourceforge.net&gt; [130320 10:13]:
  Dear Stefan,
 
 
 Am Mittwoch, den 20.03.2013, 09:22 +0100 schrieb Stefan Reinauer:
 
  it has been quite a while since we switched our
version control system
 to git + gerrit, and the incredible amount of emails has alienated one
 or another person on this list, unfortunately. But help is finally here:
 
 as far as I remember this was discussed over a year ago and the majority
 preferred having just one list.
Looking at the threads of those discussions:

http://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2012-March/068942.html
Five people voted for the split, the others didn't care. Nobody opposed.

http://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2012-August/071242.html
Four out of four people voted for the split, nobody was against it.

  As was brought up several times lately this is not how
the community
 is included in decision making in my opinion. At least a prior notice
 would have been nice.
After two polls on the mailing list, plus many people contacting Patrick
and me privately, I did not see anybody left out in any decision making
process. I'd like to apologize if you somehow got that impression.

  We switched
all gerrit based email traffic over to a new mailing list:
 coreboot-gerrit(a)coreboot.org. To prevent everybody's inbox to break down
 due to not working filters, we decided to _not_ automatically subscribe
 everybody to the new mailing list. Please do subscribe yourself, if you
 are interested in all the commit messages and code reviews flying by.
 
 In order to subscribe to the new list, please visit:
 http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot-gerrit
 
 So thanks to no prior announcement, people now missed some mails,
No emails got lost in the process. The link above contains a link to the
mailing list archive that holds the mail. Also, all content is still
available without change in gerrit itself.

  all
 subscribers wanting Gerrit messages have to subscribe again and set up
 their filters which the opponents to one list did not want to do.
There was no easy way of making everybody happy here. We have had that
discussion once before, when we split out flashrom to an extra mailing
list a few years back and back then I refused to automatically subscribe
people to a new mailing list without their consent. Over the time
everybody involved in the flashrom project subscribed, and it turned out
to be no problem. In the end it seemed to make more sense to avoid
breaking everybody's filters at the cost of some people having to look
at the list archive. Stretching out the process with a transition period
would have expected people to subscribe to a list without email traffic
and no means to test their filters.

  One question remains what to do with replies to Gerrit
messages. Some
 people do not use Gerrit for whatever reasons but do get Gerrit messages
 and want to reply per email for whatever reason. Like bringing an issues
 to broader attention or discussion. On what list should that happen? Or
 should <coreboot(a)coreboot.org&gt; just be added to CC?
I think that everybody can make a judgement call on how they would like
to implement stuff like that for themselfes. It may be different
depending on the specific matter. People have been cross posting or
sending links to mails in mailing list archives pretty much since
mailing lists exist. I'm sure it'll all work out just fine.

Regards,
Stefan

[Peter Stuge]

      Stefan Reinauer wrote:
  bringing an
issues to broader attention or discussion. On what
 list should that happen?
 
 I think that everybody can make a judgement call on how they would
 like to implement stuff like that for themselfes.
I'd suggest to make the coreboot-gerrit list read-only, so that all
discussion stays on coreboot(a)coreboot.org.


//Peter

[Oliver Schinagl]

      On 20-03-13 23:15, Peter Stuge wrote:
  Stefan Reinauer wrote:
  bringing
an issues to broader attention or discussion. On what
 list should that happen?
 I think that everybody can make a judgement call on how
they would
 like to implement stuff like that for themselfes.
 I'd suggest to make the
coreboot-gerrit list read-only, so that all
 discussion stays on coreboot(a)coreboot.org.
I just noticed this message and must
say, Wow what a relieve. Last few 
weeks I just put up a filter, [coreboot] and deleted it all. This will 
make it much easier and more attractive to follow discussions again.

Thank you!
 
 //Peter

[Stefan Reinauer]

      * Peter Stuge <peter(a)stuge.se&gt; [130320 23:15]:
  Stefan Reinauer wrote:
  bringing
an issues to broader attention or discussion. On what
 list should that happen?
 
 I think that everybody can make a judgement call on how they would
 like to implement stuff like that for themselfes.
 
 I'd suggest to make the coreboot-gerrit list read-only, so that all
 discussion stays on coreboot(a)coreboot.org.
I've set moderation + auto reject for everybody including new list
members, and I added a Reply-to: to coreboot(a)coreboot.org to make it
easier for people to remember where the discussion should happen.

HTH
Stefan

[Paul Menzel]

      Am Donnerstag, den 21.03.2013, 00:12 +0100 schrieb Stefan Reinauer:
  * Peter Stuge <peter(a)stuge.se&gt; [130320 23:15]:
  Stefan Reinauer wrote:
  bringing
an issues to broader attention or discussion. On what
 list should that happen?
 
 I think that everybody can make a judgement call on how they would
 like to implement stuff like that for themselfes.
 
 I'd suggest to make the coreboot-gerrit list read-only, so that all
 discussion stays on coreboot(a)coreboot.org.
 
 I've set moderation + auto reject for everybody including new list
 members, and I added a Reply-to: to coreboot(a)coreboot.org to make it
 easier for people to remember where the discussion should happen.
Thank you!

Paul

[Kevin O'Connor]

      On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 09:22:17AM +0100, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
  Dear coreboot community,
 
 it has been quite a while since we switched our version control system
 to git + gerrit, and the incredible amount of emails has alienated one
 or another person on this list, unfortunately. But help is finally here:
 
 We switched all gerrit based email traffic over to a new mailing list:
 coreboot-gerrit(a)coreboot.org. To prevent everybody's inbox to break down
 due to not working filters, we decided to _not_ automatically subscribe
 everybody to the new mailing list. Please do subscribe yourself, if you
 are interested in all the commit messages and code reviews flying by.
 
 In order to subscribe to the new list, please visit:
 http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot-gerrit
 
 Regards,
   coreboot admin team
I definitely appreciate this change.  Thanks!

I think moving the automated "coreboot tracker <svn(a)coreboot.org&gt;&quot;
emails off the list would be an improvement as well.  :-)

-Kevin

[Stefan Reinauer]

      * Kevin O'Connor <kevin(a)koconnor.net&gt; [130323 18:21]:
  I definitely appreciate this change.  Thanks!
 
 I think moving the automated "coreboot tracker <svn(a)coreboot.org&gt;&quot;
 emails off the list would be an improvement as well.  :-)
 
 -Kevin
 

Thanks for you mail, Kevin!

I was thinking about completely disabling the trac based tracker for
coreboot completely since we are basically not using it anymore.

Regards,
Stefan

[Kevin O'Connor]

      On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 07:24:03PM +0100, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
  I was thinking about completely disabling the trac
based tracker for
 coreboot completely since we are basically not using it anymore.
If you are looking for opinions, I'd be in favor of disabling the trac
emails to the mail list as well.

-Kevin

[Stefan Reinauer]

      * Kevin O'Connor <kevin(a)koconnor.net&gt; [130430 03:21]:
  On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 07:24:03PM +0100, Stefan
Reinauer wrote:
  I was thinking about completely disabling the
trac based tracker for
 coreboot completely since we are basically not using it anymore.
 
 If you are looking for opinions, I'd be in favor of disabling the trac
 emails to the mail list as well.
 
Done.