Re: LinuxBIOS Video?

So has anyone gotten an ATI video card to work without the emulation BIOS?

Jordan

At 02:45 PM 4/29/2004, ron minnich wrote:
 On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Li-Ta Lo wrote:

  Last time I check, the ATI vgabios wanted to
install int 0x10 handler
 and call into itself via int 0x10. The emulator can't do this yet.
Right, I had forgotten this problem.

Silly VGA BIOS.

ron

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LinuxBIOS Video?

[Stefan Reinauer]

* aphthong(a)sizzard.com <aphthong(a)sizzard.com> [040430 00:09]:
  So has anyone gotten an ATI video card to work without
the emulation BIOS?
Yes, RageXL works with the appropriate patches.


Stefan

LinuxBIOS Video?

[Richard Smith]

aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

  So has anyone gotten an ATI video card to work without
the emulation BIOS?
I'm working on an Rage Mobility M1 right now.  Yesterday I finshed 
porting some old GX DOS init code from thier developemnet site over to 
linux and I'm just about to start messing with figureing out the 
register differences between a GX and an M1.  Although they are both 
Mach64 based the M1 seems to have different address for things.

This dosen't really help most people though as the Mobility M1 only 
found in laptops, embedded setups, or custom boards like ours.  You 
won't find a general purpose video card with an M1 on it and I don't 
know of any non-laptop moterboards with one.

LinuxBIOS Video?

Well, it's good to know that someone got it working.

I'm currently doing it for a Radeon 9000 chip.

At 09:49 AM 4/30/2004 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
 aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

 So has anyone gotten an ATI video card to work
without the emulation BIOS?
I'm working on an Rage Mobility M1 right now.  Yesterday I finshed porting 
some old GX DOS init code from thier developemnet site over to linux and 
I'm just about to start messing with figureing out the register 
differences between a GX and an M1.  Although they are both Mach64 based 
the M1 seems to have different address for things.

This dosen't really help most people though as the Mobility M1 only found 
in laptops, embedded setups, or custom boards like ours.  You won't find a 
general purpose video card with an M1 on it and I don't know of any 
non-laptop moterboards with one.


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LinuxBIOS Video?

[Richard Smith]

aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

  Well, it's good to know that someone got it
working.
 
 I'm currently doing it for a Radeon 9000 chip.
So you have gone through all the NDA agreements to get access to the dev 
site?

If so perhaps we should try to coordinate?  Of course the Radeon 9000 
may be completely different since its based on a different core isn't it?

Are they going to let you release your code GPL?

LinuxBIOS Video?

Yeah, I am getting access to ATI info.  Because of the NDA I don't know how 
much I can release through GPL.  My second problem there is that the 
linuxbios2 tree has drifted enough that it may be too much of a pain to 
sync back up.  Also a pain since I have a new Northbridge/Southbridge.

I'm willing to coordinate to the limitations of the NDA, so I'll check out 
how far I can go.  The chip is different, but most of the time the designs 
are just derivative, so I would expect them to be close.

Jordan

At 10:19 AM 4/30/2004 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
 aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

 Well, it's good to know that someone got it
working.
I'm currently doing it for a Radeon 9000 chip.
So you have gone through all the NDA agreements to get access to the dev site?

If so perhaps we should try to coordinate?  Of course the Radeon 9000 may 
be completely different since its based on a different core isn't it?

Are they going to let you release your code GPL?

LinuxBIOS Video?

[Richard Smith]

aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

  Yeah, I am getting access to ATI info.  Because of the
NDA I don't know 
 how much I can release through GPL.  My second problem there is that the 
 linuxbios2 tree has drifted enough that it may be too much of a pain to
Ask and see.  I asked and got full permission to release any code I 
generate under GPL.

I'm working with v1.  The 440bx tree hasn't been ported.  Well right now 
its not even linuxbios.  My board boots linux bios but I'm running user 
space app from a serial console.

Perhaps we can compare notes once both of us get something working.

LinuxBIOS Video?

I would recommend the newer tree.  It's still pretty cryptic, but much 
cleaner than the old tree.  It took me about three weeks to get a new NB/SB 
up and running.  But I had to deal with hardware that was being debugged at 
the same time.

I'll let you know when I get it up and running.

Jordan

At 09:03 AM 4/30/2004, Richard Smith wrote:
 aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

 Yeah, I am getting access to ATI info.  Because of
the NDA I don't know 
how much I can release through GPL.  My second problem there is that the 
linuxbios2 tree has drifted enough that it may be too much of a pain to
Ask and see.  I asked and got full permission to release any code I 
generate under GPL.

I'm working with v1.  The 440bx tree hasn't been ported.  Well right now 
its not even linuxbios.  My board boots linux bios but I'm running user 
space app from a serial console.

Perhaps we can compare notes once both of us get something working.


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LinuxBIOS Video?

[Bari Ari]

What's the possibility of getting either ATI family parts to work with 
non-x86 platforms, ARM in particular?

-Bari

aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

  I would recommend the newer tree.  It's still
pretty cryptic, but much 
 cleaner than the old tree.  It took me about three weeks to get a new 
 NB/SB up and running.  But I had to deal with hardware that was being 
 debugged at the same time.
 
 I'll let you know when I get it up and running.
 
 Jordan
 
 At 09:03 AM 4/30/2004, Richard Smith wrote:
 
  aphthong(a)sizzard.com wrote:

  Yeah, I am getting access to ATI info.  Because
of the NDA I don't 
 know how much I can release through GPL.  My second problem there is 
 that the linuxbios2 tree has drifted enough that it may be too much 
 of a pain to

 Ask and see.  I asked and got full permission to release any code I 
 generate under GPL.

 I'm working with v1.  The 440bx tree hasn't been ported.  Well right 
 now its not even linuxbios.  My board boots linux bios but I'm running 
 user space app from a serial console.

 Perhaps we can compare notes once both of us get something working.


 _______________________________________________
 Linuxbios mailing list
 Linuxbios(a)clustermatic.org
 http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
 
 
 
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 Linuxbios(a)clustermatic.org
 http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

LinuxBIOS Video?

[ron minnich]

we are working on putting the emulator into linuxbios as an optional 
component. Once this is done, I think the prognosis is good. We've gotten 
distracted by fixing other things needed to support the emulator.

ron

Non-x86 Video

[Bari Ari]

ron minnich wrote:

  we are working on putting the emulator into linuxbios
as an optional 
 component. Once this is done, I think the prognosis is good. We've gotten 
 distracted by fixing other things needed to support the emulator.
What will be needed to run video on non-x86? The oem videoBIOS plus an 
8086 emulator for when videoBIOS calls are made?

Is this how the layers end up for video?

video application
-----------------
   GUI/OS Linux
-----------------
   8086 emulator
-----------------
    videoBIOS
-----------------
graphics hardware

-Bari

Non-x86 Video

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Bari Ari <bari(a)onelabs.com> [040503 20:44]:
  What will be needed to run video on non-x86? The oem
videoBIOS plus an 
 8086 emulator for when videoBIOS calls are made?
 
Once the operating system is running no video bios calls are needed.
It's all only about initializing the graphics hardware in first place.
Today's graphics cards need complex ram setup, mode initialization, etc.

  Is this how the layers end up for video?
 
 video application
 -----------------
   GUI/OS Linux
 -----------------
   8086 emulator
 -----------------
    videoBIOS
 -----------------
 graphics hardware
The x86 emulation would be running as part of LinuxBIOS, or as a user
space program. Once video is initialized, Linux can take over the
hardware and use it's own drivers (which are not capable to initialize
the hardware from power on)

    Stefan

Non-x86 Video

[Bari Ari]

Stefan Reinauer wrote:

  * Bari Ari <bari(a)onelabs.com> [040503 20:44]:
 
 What will be needed to run video on non-x86? The
oem videoBIOS plus an 
8086 emulator for when videoBIOS calls are made?
 
  
 Once the operating system is running no video bios calls are needed.
 It's all only about initializing the graphics hardware in first place.
 Today's graphics cards need complex ram setup, mode initialization, etc.
 
I've gotten various answers from graphics chip vendors over the years on 
all this.

You need the videoBIOS when you first init the device after reset unless 
you wish to come up with all your own (possibly several hundred) 
register values.

You may use the videoBIOS when you wish to change the video mode but you 
may also do it with your own set of register values on the fly.

XFree86 drivers sometimes rely on the videoBIOS, sometimes not.

 Is this how the
layers end up for video?

video application
-----------------
  GUI/OS Linux
-----------------
  8086 emulator
-----------------
   videoBIOS
-----------------
graphics hardware
 
 
 The x86 emulation would be running as part of LinuxBIOS, or as a user
 space program. Once video is initialized, Linux can take over the
 hardware and use it's own drivers (which are not capable to initialize
 the hardware from power on)
I know this is going beyond Ron's plan. Let's say there is source for an 
XFree86 driver for a graphics device with all the 3-D and Zoom port 
support. I haven't looked at the emulator yet. Using the 8086 emulator 
would this support fb driver only? or would you also be able to support 
XFree86 drivers compiled for ARM?

-Bari

Non-x86 Video

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Bari Ari <bari(a)onelabs.com> [040503 22:15]:
  You need the videoBIOS when you first init the device
after reset unless 
 you wish to come up with all your own (possibly several hundred) 
 register values.
Going the direct way by programming registers is a lost game for
every component that is not onboard (And it even does not make all that
much sense for all onboard hardware)

  You may use the videoBIOS when you wish to change the
video mode but you 
 may also do it with your own set of register values on the fly.
 
LinuxBIOS+x86 emulation should set an initial mode that can be used
later on by the operating system (vesafb basically works like this, too)

  XFree86 drivers sometimes rely on the videoBIOS,
sometimes not.
 
If they do, and you are on a non-x86 platform, they are basically using
the same x86 emulation core that LinuxBIOS uses: x86emu. 

  I know this is going beyond Ron's plan. Let's
say there is source for an 
 XFree86 driver for a graphics device with all the 3-D and Zoom port 
 support. I haven't looked at the emulator yet. Using the 8086 emulator 
 would this support fb driver only? or would you also be able to support 
 XFree86 drivers compiled for ARM?
The video bios is needed in first place to get the hardware on the video
card activated. This task is very often not performed by X11. This is
why we need to initialize the card before X11 comes into play.

If there are open source drivers for X11, they should work by just
recompiling them for your target platform. Given that they are cleanly
written.

  Stefan

Non-x86 Video

[ron minnich]

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Bari Ari wrote:

  I know this is going beyond Ron's plan. Let's
say there is source for an
 XFree86 driver for a graphics device with all the 3-D and Zoom port
 support. I haven't looked at the emulator yet. Using the 8086 emulator
 would this support fb driver only? or would you also be able to support
 XFree86 drivers compiled for ARM?
It seems to me if there is a chipset-specific driver that runs on ARM, you 
can use it. 

ron

Non-x86 Video

[Bari Ari]

ron minnich wrote:

  On Mon, 3 May 2004, Bari Ari wrote:
 
 
 I know this is going beyond Ron's plan.
Let's say there is source for an
XFree86 driver for a graphics device with all the 3-D and Zoom port
support. I haven't looked at the emulator yet. Using the 8086 emulator
would this support fb driver only? or would you also be able to support
XFree86 drivers compiled for ARM?
 
 
 It seems to me if there is a chipset-specific driver that runs on ARM, you 
 can use it.
That's the thing.... there usually aren't any drivers for ARM, just 
drivers for x86.

-Bari

Non-x86 Video

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Bari Ari <bari(a)onelabs.com> [040503 23:53]:
  ron minnich wrote:
 
 It seems to me if there is a chipset-specific
driver that runs on ARM, you 
can use it.
 
 That's the thing.... there usually aren't any drivers for ARM, just 
 drivers for x86.
chipset specific drivers in this case means graphics chipset. So if your
ARM has a PCI/AGP slot, you will be able to use Matrox, ATI, ... but not
drivers like the binary only NVidia stuff.

Stefan

Non-x86 Video

[ron minnich]

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Bari Ari wrote:

  What will be needed to run video on non-x86? The oem
videoBIOS plus an 
 8086 emulator for when videoBIOS calls are made?
we don't plan to support videoBIOS calls, just plan to support enabling 
the hardware. 

ron
  
 video application
 -----------------
    GUI/OS Linux
 -----------------
that's it.

ron

Non-x86 Video

Bari Ari <bari(a)onelabs.com> writes:

  ron minnich wrote:
 
  we are working on putting the emulator into
linuxbios as an optional
 component. Once this is done, I think the prognosis is good. We've gotten
 distracted by fixing other things needed to support the emulator.
 
 What will be needed to run video on non-x86? The oem videoBIOS plus an 8086
 emulator for when videoBIOS calls are made?
For hardware that is not on a plugin card it will likely be an ATI Rage XL
or a simlar low end chip and we can get the docs to initialize it.  YhLu
and Stefan have already accomplished that for the ATI Rage XL, and that linuxbios
driver should have no arch dependencies. 

For a plugin card we need to run the boot rom just to initialize the card.  After
that all of the standard Linux code should work.

Eric

Non-x86 Video

[Bari Ari]

Eric W. Biederman wrote:

  Bari Ari <bari(a)onelabs.com> writes:
 
 
 ron minnich wrote:


 we are working on putting the emulator into
linuxbios as an optional
component. Once this is done, I think the prognosis is good. We've gotten
distracted by fixing other things needed to support the emulator.
What will be needed to run video on non-x86? The oem videoBIOS plus an 8086
emulator for when videoBIOS calls are made?
 
 
 For hardware that is not on a plugin card it will likely be an ATI Rage XL
 or a simlar low end chip and we can get the docs to initialize it.  YhLu
 and Stefan have already accomplished that for the ATI Rage XL, and that linuxbios
 driver should have no arch dependencies. 
 
 For a plugin card we need to run the boot rom just to initialize the card.  After
 that all of the standard Linux code should work.
We design all our own boards and have the access to the graphics 
processor data as well as the vendors videoBIOS.

For x86 it's easy for us. We get oem drivers and the tools to modify the 
oem videoBIOS.

For non-x86 such as ARM the GPU developers (who make the silicon) don't 
have answers since they only work in the x86 world or a very small 
fraction know PPC for Apple or IBM.

ATI and nVidia don't let source out for the most current parts. There is 
some xFree86 driver source for the 3-4 year old devices. For ATI there 
may be source for up the Radeon 9000. That source is what were looking 
at to get PC GPU's working on ARM with ARMLinux.

-Bari

LinuxBIOS Video?

[Richard Smith]

ron minnich wrote:
  we are working on putting the emulator into linuxbios
as an optional 
 component. Once this is done, I think the prognosis is good. We've gotten 
 distracted by fixing other things needed to support the emulator.
My tests of the emulator so far with ATI bios have failed.

LinuxBIOS Video?

[ron minnich]

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Richard Smith wrote:

  ron minnich wrote:
  we are working on putting the emulator into
linuxbios as an optional 
 component. Once this is done, I think the prognosis is good. We've gotten 
 distracted by fixing other things needed to support the emulator.
 
 My tests of the emulator so far with ATI bios have failed.

yes, this is the "INT 10" problem :-(

still working on ATI issues. nvidia is fine.

ron