switch or router hardware with coreboot

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

Hi,

is there any currently commercially available switch or router hardware
(10Gbit/s or more) running coreboot and preferably also Linux?

I'm currently trying to build a PoC network where all components have
mostly FOSS firmware and operating systems.

My Wifi access points and 1 Gbit/s switches are running U-Boot and
OpenWrt, so on that tier I'm covered. OpenWrt is even running on very
few select 10 Gbit/s switches, but there the bootloader seems to be
U-Boot+blob.
For routing, I'm currently using PCEngines APU2 with coreboot and
Debian, but those are not really made to handle routing or even NAT at
more than 1 Gbit/s.

Once the PoC phase is done, I expect required routing/NAT/packet
filtering bandwidth to exceed 5 Gbit/s and I'd like to use a coreboot
based product for that.
If necessary, I can add a few network cards to a general-purpose server,
but a purpose-built device would be preferred.

Suggestions? Comments?

Thanks,
Carl-Daniel

[Paul Menzel]

Dear Carl-Daniel,

Am 25.07.23 um 18:54 schrieb Carl-Daniel Hailfinger:
> is there any currently commercially available switch or router hardware
> (10Gbit/s or more) running coreboot and preferably also Linux?
>
> I'm currently trying to build a PoC network where all components have
> mostly FOSS firmware and operating systems.
>
> My Wifi access points and 1 Gbit/s switches are running U-Boot and
> OpenWrt, so on that tier I'm covered. OpenWrt is even running on very
> few select 10 Gbit/s switches, but there the bootloader seems to be
> U-Boot+blob.

My institute is migrating to using whitebox switches with dentOS [1]. 
These are ARM devices with ONIE support, so the firmware part – U-Boot 
in this case, no coreboot – is FLOSS with the Marvell switching ASIC 
supported by Linux’ swtichdev interface. dentOS is a Open Network Linux 
fork, and therefore also based on Debian. There are alternatives like 
Replica.one [2], Gentoo based, and plans by Amazon to use 
Yocto/OpenEmbedded. (As it’s supported by the upstream Linux kernel, and 
the firmware should be in linux-firmware, you should be able to use any 
distribution.)
> For routing, I'm currently using PCEngines APU2 with coreboot and
> Debian, but those are not really made to handle routing or even NAT at
> more than 1 Gbit/s.

No idea about the routing features of the RTL838x devices supported by 
OpenWrt [3][4]. My institute is going to use switches using that chip. 
Unfortunately, there is no vendor support (Zyxel), so using OpenWrt you 
are on your own.
> Once the PoC phase is done, I expect required routing/NAT/packet
> filtering bandwidth to exceed 5 Gbit/s and I'd like to use a coreboot
> based product for that.
> If necessary, I can add a few network cards to a general-purpose server,
> but a purpose-built device would be preferred.
>
> Suggestions? Comments?

Cisco Meraki, whatever that is, also has a coreboot port, that isn’t 
upstream though [5].

Kind regards,

Paul

[1]: https://dent.dev/
[2]: https://github.com/sartura/replica/
[3]: 
https://forum.openwrt.org/t/support-for-rtl838x-based-managed-switches/57875
[4]: https://svanheule.net/switches/rtl93xx
[5]: 
https://mail.coreboot.org/hyperkitty/list/[e-mail]/thread/NAJKJ...

[Zeh, Werner]

Hi Carl-Daniel.

We had an issue with Cisco Meraki last year (see [1]) where it turned out that at least their MX84 and MX250 switches run with coreboot (looked like a Broadwell-DE based design).
Maybe it is worth to have a closer look at their products for your use case.

Werner

[1] https://mail.coreboot.org/hyperkitty/list/[e-mail]/thread/ONXER...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl-Daniel Hailfinger 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 6:54 PM
> To: Coreboot 
> Subject: [coreboot] switch or router hardware with coreboot
>
> Hi,
>
> is there any currently commercially available switch or router hardware
> (10Gbit/s or more) running coreboot and preferably also Linux?
>
> I'm currently trying to build a PoC network where all components have
> mostly FOSS firmware and operating systems.
>
> My Wifi access points and 1 Gbit/s switches are running U-Boot and
> OpenWrt, so on that tier I'm covered. OpenWrt is even running on very few
> select 10 Gbit/s switches, but there the bootloader seems to be
> U-Boot+blob.
> For routing, I'm currently using PCEngines APU2 with coreboot and Debian,
> but those are not really made to handle routing or even NAT at more than 1
> Gbit/s.
>
> Once the PoC phase is done, I expect required routing/NAT/packet filtering
> bandwidth to exceed 5 Gbit/s and I'd like to use a coreboot based product
> for that.
> If necessary, I can add a few network cards to a general-purpose server, but
> a purpose-built device would be preferred.
>
> Suggestions? Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Carl-Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail] To unsubscribe send an email
> to [e-mail]

[Hal Martin]

All,

Cisco Meraki are possibly the most FOSS hostile vendor I have ever had
the displeasure of trying to pry GPL source code from.

It took Meraki more than 12 months to provide the coreboot source code
for the MX84 and MX250, and that occurred only after we (the hardware
owners) lost patience and threatened to escalate the matter to
coreboot/FSF. I have currently been waiting over 8 months for the
source code of another Meraki product (that does not utilize coreboot,
so is of no concern to this mailing list).

I would not recommend Cisco Meraki or their hardware to anyone
interested in open-source firmware/devices. You will have a bad time.

Regards,
Hal

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 10:50 AM Zeh, Werner via coreboot
 wrote:
> Hi Carl-Daniel.
>
> We had an issue with Cisco Meraki last year (see [1]) where it turned out that at least their MX84 and MX250 switches run with coreboot (looked like a Broadwell-DE based design).
> Maybe it is worth to have a closer look at their products for your use case.
>
> Werner
>
> [1] https://mail.coreboot.org/hyperkitty/list/[e-mail]/thread/ONXER...
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl-Daniel Hailfinger 
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 6:54 PM
> > To: Coreboot 
> > Subject: [coreboot] switch or router hardware with coreboot
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > is there any currently commercially available switch or router hardware
> > (10Gbit/s or more) running coreboot and preferably also Linux?
> >
> > I'm currently trying to build a PoC network where all components have
> > mostly FOSS firmware and operating systems.
> >
> > My Wifi access points and 1 Gbit/s switches are running U-Boot and
> > OpenWrt, so on that tier I'm covered. OpenWrt is even running on very few
> > select 10 Gbit/s switches, but there the bootloader seems to be
> > U-Boot+blob.
> > For routing, I'm currently using PCEngines APU2 with coreboot and Debian,
> > but those are not really made to handle routing or even NAT at more than 1
> > Gbit/s.
> >
> > Once the PoC phase is done, I expect required routing/NAT/packet filtering
> > bandwidth to exceed 5 Gbit/s and I'd like to use a coreboot based product
> > for that.
> > If necessary, I can add a few network cards to a general-purpose server, but
> > a purpose-built device would be preferred.
> >
> > Suggestions? Comments?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Carl-Daniel
> > _______________________________________________
> > coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail] To unsubscribe send an email
> > to [e-mail]
>
> coreboot mailing list -- [e-mail]
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