Just a quick note to confirm that LinuxBIOS will be present at the LinuxTag expo next week. We'll show some systems with LB and we're doing an EPIA/-M/-MII workshop on Saturday 2/6 for people who want to get started using LinuxBIOS quickly. Bring your board! :)
I've put a news item up on the wiki and added a separate page for the workshop details.
//Peter
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 03:48:24AM +0200, Peter Stuge wrote:
Just a quick note to confirm that LinuxBIOS will be present at the LinuxTag expo next week. We'll show some systems with LB and we're doing an EPIA/-M/-MII workshop on Saturday 2/6 for people who want to get started using LinuxBIOS quickly. Bring your board! :)
I've put a news item up on the wiki and added a separate page for the workshop details.
//Peter
Hrm, makes me wish i had already finished the direct unichrome support for it. Tell people it's in the works, that it runs np from userspace, but that it needs further work integrating in linuxbios. I'm pretty much stuck until halfway june, though.
Luc Verhaegen.
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 06:39:20PM +0200, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
an EPIA/-M/-MII workshop on Saturday 2/6
Hrm, makes me wish i had already finished the direct unichrome support for it.
..instead of using the VGA BIOS, right?
Tell people it's in the works, that it runs np from userspace, but that it needs further work integrating in linuxbios. I'm pretty much stuck until halfway june, though.
Aye.
How does davem's viafb fit into the picture?
I used the VGA BIOS and built a viafb kernel for my EPIA-MII last time I was using the board and got good graphics out of it. No X though.
Is viafb at all useful for running X.org? Which version of X.org is good for users? (Assuming LinuxBIOS+VGA BIOS)
//Peter
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 10:38:48PM +0200, Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 06:39:20PM +0200, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
an EPIA/-M/-MII workshop on Saturday 2/6
Hrm, makes me wish i had already finished the direct unichrome support for it.
..instead of using the VGA BIOS, right?
Indeed. No more messing about with that.
Tell people it's in the works, that it runs np from userspace, but that it needs further work integrating in linuxbios. I'm pretty much stuck until halfway june, though.
Aye.
How does davem's viafb fit into the picture?
Is this the one that's based on the register document i wrote up in 2004? I don't know, never used it. It won't work properly without the VGA BIOS though.
I used the VGA BIOS and built a viafb kernel for my EPIA-MII last time I was using the board and got good graphics out of it. No X though.
Is viafb at all useful for running X.org? Which version of X.org is good for users? (Assuming LinuxBIOS+VGA BIOS)
I don't know if it is useful, last time i used X on fb, the MGA G450 was still recent.
You can use my xf86-video-unichrome directly, with no VGA BIOS, it'll run just like normal. Just make sure you get the git version. Any X will do too.
Luc Verhaegen.
* Luc Verhaegen libv@skynet.be [070526 01:53]:
Tell people it's in the works, that it runs np from userspace, but that it needs further work integrating in linuxbios. I'm pretty much stuck until halfway june, though.
What has to be done to make it work in LinuxBIOS? When we did VGA BIOS execution it was done in userspace first and then migrated into LinuxBIOS.
Otoh, I am sure that part of LinuxBIOS could use some cleanup, too.
You can use my xf86-video-unichrome directly, with no VGA BIOS, it'll run just like normal. Just make sure you get the git version. Any X will do too.
Uh, compiling X yourself is something that only an X developer wants to do. At least it was when I last tried in '94 ;-)
Honestly, this is great news. While we have permission from VIA to redistribute their VGA roms, it is certainly a gain for boot speed, transparency of the system and flexibility to initialize VGA directly.
BTW: Can we switch to certain resolutions and depths, as well as use different outputs (VGA, TV, ..) with your userspace utility?
Stefan
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 10:58:33AM +0200, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
What has to be done to make it work in LinuxBIOS? When we did VGA BIOS execution it was done in userspace first and then migrated into LinuxBIOS.
Otoh, I am sure that part of LinuxBIOS could use some cleanup, too.
Well, I had just started to build what i had. I indeed got to throw out quite a bit of code that ran the unichromes VGA BIOS (and which also, depends on the VGA BIOS sitting at 256kB).
I had just started to fix the problems that popped during building, i'm really just a day or two away of a fully working version. Sadly, when already a week over due with a project for a course i'm following, this is time i cannot spare.
Uh, compiling X yourself is something that only an X developer wants to do. At least it was when I last tried in '94 ;-)
You don't need to compile X yourself with modular (or with the SDK people before never shipped), just install whatever -dev package your distribution offers and follow the build instructions. If you're using debian or ubuntu, you can also just dpkg-buildpackage my code.
Honestly, this is great news. While we have permission from VIA to redistribute their VGA roms, it is certainly a gain for boot speed, transparency of the system and flexibility to initialize VGA directly.
BTW: Can we switch to certain resolutions and depths, as well as use different outputs (VGA, TV, ..) with your userspace utility?
No, this is purely to get 640x480 textmode to work on the CRT connection. This is the safe option that will work for 98% of the EPIA-M users out there. The other 2% are those who are fully dependant on the DVI or LVDS/RGB display modules.
I can of course insert a full modesetting system, but that will mean doing things like EDID parsing and cvt modeline generation in linuxbios. And this will all be getting rather big rather quickly.
640x480@60Hz is somewhat safe, as most devices on the CRT connection will be able to handle this, as this is the default BIOS textmode.
Luc Verhaegen.
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 01:53:32AM +0200, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
..instead of using the VGA BIOS, right?
Indeed. No more messing about with that.
Great, thanks for clarifying that.
How does davem's viafb fit into the picture?
Is this the one that's based on the register document i wrote up in 2004? I don't know, never used it. It won't work properly without the VGA BIOS though.
I think that's the one, yes. I "only" needed fbdev support so I tried it and it worked well. (Yes, with the VGA BIOS.) Is there another way to get fbdev that you recommend?
You can use my xf86-video-unichrome directly, with no VGA BIOS, it'll run just like normal. Just make sure you get the git version. Any X will do too.
Awesome! :)
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 12:14:20PM +0200, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
BTW: Can we switch to certain resolutions and depths, as well as use different outputs (VGA, TV, ..) with your userspace utility?
No, this is purely to get 640x480 textmode to work on the CRT connection. This is the safe option that will work for 98% of the EPIA-M users out there. The other 2% are those who are fully dependant on the DVI or LVDS/RGB display modules.
Does xf86-video-unichrome also work on the plain EPIA by the way?
I can of course insert a full modesetting system, but that will mean doing things like EDID parsing and cvt modeline generation in linuxbios. And this will all be getting rather big rather quickly.
Does it have to be done at runtime? A compile time option for graphics mode and output would be a really great feature too.
640x480@60Hz is somewhat safe, as most devices on the CRT connection will be able to handle this, as this is the default BIOS textmode.
Yes, fully agreed.
//Peter
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 04:37:48PM +0200, Peter Stuge wrote:
I think that's the one, yes. I "only" needed fbdev support so I tried it and it worked well. (Yes, with the VGA BIOS.) Is there another way to get fbdev that you recommend?
Not, yet, one day, maybe :)
Does xf86-video-unichrome also work on the plain EPIA by the way?
No, that's a close relation of the trident family.
I can of course insert a full modesetting system, but that will mean doing things like EDID parsing and cvt modeline generation in linuxbios. And this will all be getting rather big rather quickly.
Does it have to be done at runtime? A compile time option for graphics mode and output would be a really great feature too.
It would require runtime configuration. People should not rebuild their BIOS to change, say, monitors.
But then, i prefer to spend time on a full featured FB driver instead.
Luc Verhaegen.
* Luc Verhaegen libv@skynet.be [070526 12:14]:
BTW: Can we switch to certain resolutions and depths, as well as use different outputs (VGA, TV, ..) with your userspace utility?
No, this is purely to get 640x480 textmode to work on the CRT connection. This is the safe option that will work for 98% of the EPIA-M users out there. The other 2% are those who are fully dependant on the DVI or LVDS/RGB display modules.
Or they will just use the VGA BIOS which can do all, I think.
I can of course insert a full modesetting system, but that will mean doing things like EDID parsing and cvt modeline generation in linuxbios. And this will all be getting rather big rather quickly.
Does VIA's graphics bios do all that? Can it be done in a non-VIA-only way?
640x480@60Hz is somewhat safe, as most devices on the CRT connection will be able to handle this, as this is the default BIOS textmode.
default text mode sucks ;) but ignore me, i'm the bootsplash guy
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 05:29:28PM +0200, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
No, this is purely to get 640x480 textmode to work on the CRT connection. This is the safe option that will work for 98% of the EPIA-M users out there. The other 2% are those who are fully dependant on the DVI or LVDS/RGB display modules.
Or they will just use the VGA BIOS which can do all, I think.
Well, VIAs VGA BIOS is table based and not always the right solution.
I can of course insert a full modesetting system, but that will mean doing things like EDID parsing and cvt modeline generation in linuxbios. And this will all be getting rather big rather quickly.
Does VIA's graphics bios do all that? Can it be done in a non-VIA-only way?
It only does some rudimentary EDID parsing and some very basic output handling, including both CRTCs with scaling and simultaneous (needed to get 640x400 on a CLE266 with a panel or DVI). It's fully table based though, so you only get those resolutions and modes that were programmed. So you can forget about 1360x768, 1440x900 or 1680x1050.
Actually, i have quite a ball on VIAs forums, pointing windows users to linux. It seems their drivers depend on what is programmed in the BIOS, and VIa seems utterly unable to fix it without creating new BIOS images :)
Try finding a manufacturer willing to create a bios with 1680x1050 for a board for which production stopped in 2005. Then hope that this is the manufacturer for your exact board :)
640x480@60Hz is somewhat safe, as most devices on the CRT connection will be able to handle this, as this is the default BIOS textmode.
default text mode sucks ;) but ignore me, i'm the bootsplash guy
Well, this textmode is a life-saver. It's perfectly ok to live with only a mode from X... this right until the time an fsck requires user intervention, and serial isn't responding (which i had a month or so ago). You're very glad to see a textmode then.
I'm not sure how you get to busybox in linuxbios when something goes wrong, but my guess is that anyone will be over the moon when able to use this directly, even if it's just 640x480.
Nobody will ever be as glad to see a boot splash. It will never save somebody any time or effort. Besides, i think you need a vga textmode if you want the kernel to properly log its output without an FB driver.
Not that i'm totally against a bootsplash or a full modeset in BIOS, but imho other things are way more important.
I will have to do a bit more work than what i'm currently doing though, i will need to make it possible to use textmode on DVI or a panel on the CLE266. That way all basic needs are taken care of.
Luc Verhaegen.
On Sat, 2007-05-26 at 19:26 -0700, Russ Whitaker wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 05:29:28PM +0200, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
No, this is purely to get 640x480 textmode to work on the CRT
Shouldn't that be vga video mode 3, 720x400 res, which gives 80x25 text?
If people could have a vga console without messing around with a vga bios, I don't think they'd care ;)
Great work Luc!
-Corey
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 07:26:54PM -0700, Russ Whitaker wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 05:29:28PM +0200, Stefan Reinauer wrote:
No, this is purely to get 640x480 textmode to work on the CRT
Shouldn't that be vga video mode 3, 720x400 res, which gives 80x25 text?
Russ
It is 640x400, you're right about the 480. You're not entirely right about the 720: 720 is the (8 + 1)*5 fontset, 640 is the 8x5 fontset.
Luc Verhaegen.
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Corey Osgood -
Luc Verhaegen -
Peter Stuge -
Russ Whitaker -
Stefan Reinauer