my config looks as follows:
target pcm-5823 mainboard advantech/pcm-5823
Ah. Cool you are using V1 that will make things easier. I can't mess with this untill this weekend but I'll certainly give it a whirl. I was wanting to try and get linuxbios up on my reference platform anyway.
One question though does your board have SDRAM or DDR? My reference boad has DDR soldered on the mainboard but looking at the raminit.inc code its not obvious if its for sdram or DDR.
I've got the gx1533 reference board made by Via not by NSC. Dunno if they did anything differnt.
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Richard Smith wrote:
One question though does your board have SDRAM or DDR? My reference boad has DDR soldered on the mainboard but looking at the raminit.inc code its not obvious if its for sdram or DDR.
for 440 and geode it is all sdr.
I've got the gx1533 reference board made by Via not by NSC. Dunno if they did anything differnt.
Richard, he's talking about a geode. Are you doing geode or 440bx?
ron
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:55:57 -0700 (MST), Ronald G. Minnich rminnich@lanl.gov wrote:
for 440 and geode it is all sdr.
I've got the gx1533 reference board made by Via not by NSC. Dunno if they did anything differnt.
Richard, he's talking about a geode. Are you doing geode or 440bx?
I've got both now. One of our vendors has been coming in lately pushing this new geode. made by VIA. Trying to replace our STPC products. The got me a reference platform and I'm suppoed to mess with it and see if our current apps will boot and run.
I just wen't and looked. What I have is the new GXD533 its a different chip and does DDR. Still the same companion chip though. So I was confused between the GX1 and the GXD533.
Looks like I won't be able to help then.
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Richard Smith wrote:
I've got both now. One of our vendors has been coming in lately pushing this new geode. made by VIA. Trying to replace our STPC products. The got me a reference platform and I'm suppoed to mess with it and see if our current apps will boot and run.
geode made by VIA? AMD owns geode. Now I'm totally lost :)
I just wen't and looked. What I have is the new GXD533 its a different chip and does DDR. Still the same companion chip though. So I was confused between the GX1 and the GXD533.
I'd like to see about a V2 port for the new geode, however.
ron
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Richard Smith wrote:
Agh! wrong 3 letter company. I meant AMD. Sorry.
so I can get a board from AMD with geode+ddr? I had not heard this was out yet. What's the clock rate on the geode?
ron
so I can get a board from AMD with geode+ddr? I had not heard this was out yet. What's the clock rate on the geode?
400Mhz. Theres the reference board and a few other boards available google for gx533
This rev still needs the companion chip to add IDE and other stuff. But later this year there is a newer chip that has the companion chip built in.
Hi guys,
I think the geode+ddr that you are referring to is the AMD Geode GX2. It's being sold in India (typically together with broadband packages) as the basis for a low cost computer called the AMD PIC. It's priced at USD$185 without a monitor and has DDR330 128MB RAM, 10GB hdd, audio, 1024x768x32@75Hz video. It's a 400MHz part, the GX533 label, I think comes from it's "equivalent performance" measurement.
I have been thinking about getting the AMD-PIC at some point to port linux on to it. Currently, they're being sold with Windows CE on it. Apparently, it has a gensys bios on it that only loads "signed" OSes. I did notice that Linspire announced that they have a Linux port for it so that's a step in the right direction.
I'm not sure about VIA but I believe Tyan is making a low cost integrated board for this Geode GX2 cpu as well. I'm hoping their price will be less than USD$100 after adding the hdd, ram, etc. :-)
Ramesh
--- Richard Smith smithbone@gmail.com wrote:
so I can get a board from AMD with geode+ddr? I
had not heard this was out
yet. What's the clock rate on the geode?
400Mhz. Theres the reference board and a few other boards available google for gx533
This rev still needs the companion chip to add IDE and other stuff. But later this year there is a newer chip that has the companion chip built in.
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I think the geode+ddr that you are referring to is the AMD Geode GX2. It's being sold in India (typically together with broadband packages) as the basis for a low cost computer called the AMD PIC. It's priced at USD$185 without a monitor and has DDR330 128MB RAM, 10GB hdd, audio, 1024x768x32@75Hz video. It's a 400MHz part, the GX533 label, I think comes from it's "equivalent performance" measurement.
and no ethernet, sigh.
It has 4 USB ports. I'm told that typically, the reseller, that's typically the broadband people, like VSNL, add on a USB ADSL modem or USB ethernet at no additional cost.
--- Adam Sulmicki adam@cfar.umd.edu wrote:
I think the geode+ddr that you are referring to is
the
AMD Geode GX2. It's being sold in India (typically together with broadband packages) as the basis for
a
low cost computer called the AMD PIC. It's priced
at
USD$185 without a monitor and has DDR330 128MB
RAM,
10GB hdd, audio, 1024x768x32@75Hz video. It's a
400MHz
part, the GX533 label, I think comes from it's "equivalent performance" measurement.
and no ethernet, sigh.
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Adam Sulmicki wrote:
I think the geode+ddr that you are referring to is the AMD Geode GX2. It's being sold in India (typically together with broadband packages) as the basis for a low cost computer called the AMD PIC. It's priced at USD$185 without a monitor and has DDR330 128MB RAM, 10GB hdd, audio, 1024x768x32@75Hz video. It's a 400MHz part, the GX533 label, I think comes from it's "equivalent performance" measurement.
and no ethernet, sigh.
The PIC is part of a marketing campaign called 50x15 "affordable Internet access and computing for 50 percent of the world population by the year 2015"
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330...
We've been approached at times to design similar platforms for the 3rd world. A x86 Linux machine with LinuxBIOS that also supports M$ with enough power to run basic apps (word processing, browser, MPEG etc.) and is real low cost <$100 and is as idiot proof as possible.
-Bari
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Bari Ari wrote:
We've been approached at times to design similar platforms for the 3rd world. A x86 Linux machine with LinuxBIOS that also supports M$ with enough power to run basic apps (word processing, browser, MPEG etc.) and is real low cost <$100 and is as idiot proof as possible.
They could knock the price down a bit, too, if they used linuxbios.
Wish they would figure this out.
ron
I think the geode+ddr that you are referring to is the AMD Geode GX2. It's being sold in India (typically together with broadband packages) as the basis for a low cost computer called the AMD PIC. It's priced at USD$185 without a monitor and has DDR330 128MB RAM, 10GB hdd, audio, 1024x768x32@75Hz video. It's a 400MHz part, the GX533 label, I think comes from it's "equivalent performance" measurement.
and no ethernet, sigh.
The PIC is part of a marketing campaign called 50x15 "affordable Internet access and computing for 50 percent of the world population by the year 2015"
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330...
We've been approached at times to design similar platforms for the 3rd world. A x86 Linux machine with LinuxBIOS that also supports M$ with enough power to run basic apps (word processing, browser, MPEG etc.) and is real low cost <$100 and is as idiot proof as possible.
of curiosity. How much do you guesstimate it would increase cost of the PIC if they add added built-in ethernet to it? $0.50 ? (not really sure if Geode cpu has build in ethernet or not).
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Adam Sulmicki wrote:
of curiosity. How much do you guesstimate it would increase cost of the PIC if they add added built-in ethernet to it? $0.50 ? (not really sure if Geode cpu has build in ethernet or not).
I keep wondering if they did delete ethernet so as to make it not compete with more expensive platforms. I find the removal of ethenet very odd.
ron
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 11:08:39AM -0700, Ronald G. Minnich wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Adam Sulmicki wrote:
of curiosity. How much do you guesstimate it would increase cost of the PIC if they add added built-in ethernet to it? $0.50 ? (not really sure if Geode cpu has build in ethernet or not).
I keep wondering if they did delete ethernet so as to make it not compete with more expensive platforms. I find the removal of ethenet very odd.
Neither GX1 nor Geode have ever had ethernet built-in. If you want ethernet it goes on the external PCI bus. NatSemi has been known to offer good package deals for sets of Geode+DP838xx+support chips however.
Insyde BIOS licenses aren't exactly free however, and for a consumer device that would indeed be the path of least resistance. You can get custom modifications done for a fee too.
(Or, "just" port LinuxBIOS.. :)
//Peter
Adam Sulmicki wrote:
of curiosity. How much do you guesstimate it would increase cost of the PIC if they add added built-in ethernet to it? $0.50 ? (not really sure if Geode cpu has build in ethernet or not).
10/100 would be very cheap, MacPhy+magnetics+passives+RJ45=<$2in high volume.
Whenever this comes up, they only want USB for expansion 2-6 in fact. It seems that the 3rd world telcos/isp's offer DSL, GPRS or WiMax derivatives via another box with a USB interface.
VGA is even considered unnecessary, TV out for NTSC/Pal is the display of choice.
-Bari
VGA is even considered unnecessary, TV out for NTSC/Pal is the display of choice.
ick. 10x7 just barely cuts it for me. Surfing at CGA display levels just seems wrong. But I guess if you don't know any better...
Richard Smith wrote:
VGA is even considered unnecessary, TV out for NTSC/Pal is the display of choice.
ick. 10x7 just barely cuts it for me. Surfing at CGA display levels just seems wrong. But I guess if you don't know any better...
Exactly. It's the village PC for most of the world where indoor plumbing is a luxury. An x86 version of the http://www.simputer.org/simputer/ that uses a TV for display.
-Bari
Exactly. It's the village PC for most of the world where indoor plumbing is a luxury. An x86 version of the http://www.simputer.org/simputer/ that uses a TV for display.
-Bari
Forgive me for starting to drift offtopic.
I'm not sure I understand. The villages lacking indoor plumbing are not the customer base that I think are being targeted for broadband+PIC. I believe the target base are the 50Million or so Indians who are in the lower middle class. They have a monthly disposable income of around USD$10 so they could pay off the cost of a PIC over a year or two. These are people who are teachers, farmers, artisans, barbers, sundry shop owners ( and if I might say so, are a lovely people whom I'd someday like to help by delivering a cheaper free and open sourced based Linux solution to their computing needs ). They already have indoor plumbing, thank you very much. They typically want to use a PIC to get things like current commodity grain prices, the price of gas, exchange email and photos of their family with their relatives in the city, figure out if their politicians are doing right by them, and get educational content for their children. I think 1024x768 is fine for them. Once their kids become hackers, I'm sure they'll find a way to get better displays. :-)
From what I understand of the PIC, the output is VGA
only. The broadband provider bundles in a 15" CRT from LG-India bringing the price up to USD$250 or so.
Also, from what I've read, the simputer is more like a enhanced-PDA, ie: handheld device, rather than like a computer. From their FAQ;
# Q: Is the Simputer like a PC? A: No. The Simputer is *NOT* a personal computer. It could however be a pocket computer. # Q: Is the Simputer like a Palm? A: Again no! The Simputer is much more powerful than a Palm. For example, in terms of screen size (320x240), memory capabilities (32MB RAM) and the OS (GNU/Linux).
Ramesh
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ramesh bios wrote:
The villages lacking indoor
plumbing are not the customer base that I think are being targeted for broadband+PIC. I believe the target base are the 50Million or so Indians who are in the lower middle class. They have a monthly disposable income of around USD$10 so they could pay off the cost of a PIC over a year or two. These are people who are teachers, farmers, artisans, barbers, sundry shop owners ( and if I might say so, are a lovely people whom I'd someday like to help by delivering a cheaper free and open sourced based Linux solution to their computing needs ). They already have indoor plumbing, thank you very much. They typically want to use a PIC to get things like current commodity grain prices, the price of gas, exchange email and photos of their family with their relatives in the city, figure out if their politicians are doing right by them, and get educational content for their children.
Why even consider x86? ARM SOC + LinuxARM can support broadband and all the above mentioned apps. for far lower price and power consumption. For example Freescale has an ARM SOC for <$5 (quan 1M+) with MMX type instructions, VoIP, SVGA, MPEG-4 decode 30fps, USB + Sound.
-Bari
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 08:49:51PM -0600, Bari Ari wrote:
Why even consider x86?
Didn't someone mention Windows?
//Peter
Peter Stuge wrote:
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 08:49:51PM -0600, Bari Ari wrote:
Why even consider x86?
Didn't someone mention Windows?
What other reasons can there be to stay with x86 if lowest cost and low power are the greatest concerns? Floating point capability? Extended instructions for multimedia are included in ARM SOC's along with hardware accelerators for sound & graphics.
-Bari
Why even consider x86? ARM SOC + LinuxARM can support broadband and all the above mentioned apps. for far lower price and power consumption. For example Freescale has an ARM SOC for <$5 (quan 1M+) with MMX type instructions, VoIP, SVGA, MPEG-4 decode 30fps, USB + Sound.
-Bari
That's an excellent question to which I don't have a good answer. I'd be all for it.
I have noticed though, that there aren't that many low cost (under the USD$100 price tag) full system type arm boards showing up, at least in my area. How about for you?
I guess maybe I haven't searched very hard. I'd be thrilled to find an xscale board at that price. I would very likely be one of millions in this region who'd buy an arm based solution if it matched the PIC's hardware feature list at the same price. I can imagine whole industries springing up here to start providing software and services around such a solution.
Ramesh
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On a minimally related note. In the NSC framebuffer driver I saw mention to a Geode GX1 Pyramid chip which supposedly fixed an issue with pitch > 1k for 16bpp. I've haven't been able to get an answer from AMD about what this chip was, or if national ever made it. It was mentioned in the driver back when the geode gx1 was still in b2 silicon revision. This limitation kind of prevents any 16x9 resolutions other than 848x480 with a suitable color depth, though technically there's enough memory.
Is it aligned differently or something?
On Fri, 2005-01-14 at 14:39 -0600, Bari Ari wrote:
Adam Sulmicki wrote:
of curiosity. How much do you guesstimate it would increase cost of the PIC if they add added built-in ethernet to it? $0.50 ? (not really sure if Geode cpu has build in ethernet or not).
10/100 would be very cheap, MacPhy+magnetics+passives+RJ45=<$2in high volume.
Whenever this comes up, they only want USB for expansion 2-6 in fact. It seems that the 3rd world telcos/isp's offer DSL, GPRS or WiMax derivatives via another box with a USB interface.
VGA is even considered unnecessary, TV out for NTSC/Pal is the display of choice.
-Bari
Linuxbios mailing list Linuxbios@clustermatic.org http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios
10GB hdd, audio, 1024x768x32@75Hz video. It's a 400MHz part, the GX533 label, I think comes from it's "equivalent performance" measurement.
and no ethernet, sigh.
Our Arrow rep showed me some small thin client using the gx533 that had ide, usb, sound, and ethernet. The board was just slightly bigger than a CD case. I can't seem to find the URL now though.
I'll send e-mail to him and did that up for you.
than a CD case. I can't seem to find the URL now though. I'll send e-mail to him and did that up for you.
Here it is. You will have to unwrap the long URL.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330...
ramesh bios wrote:
I have been thinking about getting the AMD-PIC at some point to port linux on to it. Currently, they're being sold with Windows CE on it. Apparently, it has a gensys bios on it that only loads "signed" OSes. I did notice that Linspire announced that they have a Linux port for it so that's a step in the right direction.
We looked at the PIC for the LinuxBIOS port. It would just need a socketed flash dropped in for development. The port is straightforward since the docs are all available.
Any x86 Linux distribution would work for the OS. The whole idea of the signed BIOS and OS is so that if you were using the device say in the middle of Mongolia, a service call is out of the question if the user loads some app. that would require an OS reinstall to recover a crashed system.
-Bari
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, ramesh bios wrote:
I have been thinking about getting the AMD-PIC at some point to port linux on to it. Currently, they're being sold with Windows CE on it. Apparently, it has a gensys bios on it that only loads "signed" OSes. I did notice that Linspire announced that they have a Linux port for it so that's a step in the right direction.
No ethernet. We noticed that, and we would have bought it but for that limitation.
ron
-
Adam Sulmicki -
Bari Ari -
Brian G. Rhodes -
Peter Stuge -
ramesh bios -
Richard Smith -
Ronald G. Minnich