Free chips, not required by me, and a question

[Chris Lingard]

I have:

6 W38V040
12 SST25VF032B, (tiny little chips)

Anybody want them, just send a snail mail address?

Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have some 
Pm49FL008 too.

I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this type of 
chip, please let me know the part number.  (I would much appreciate the 
exact detail, as the supplier asks incomprehensible questions)

Chris Lingard

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

On 29.11.2008 10:57, Chris Lingard wrote:
> Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have
> some Pm49FL008 too.
>
> I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this type
> of chip, please let me know the part number.  (I would much appreciate
> the exact detail, as the supplier asks incomprehensible questions)

Can you tell us more about your mainboard chipset? The Pm49FL004 can do
LPC and FWH, but a board only needs one of them.

I thought I had seen some data sheets for 32 Mbit chips, but it seems
they all were SPI and not FWH/LPC.

Regards,
Carl-Daniel

[Chris Lingard]

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> On 29.11.2008 10:57, Chris Lingard wrote:
> > Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have
> > some Pm49FL008 too.
> >
> > I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this type
> > of chip, please let me know the part number.  (I would much appreciate
> > the exact detail, as the supplier asks incomprehensible questions)
>
> Can you tell us more about your mainboard chipset? The Pm49FL004 can do
> LPC and FWH, but a board only needs one of them.
>
> I thought I had seen some data sheets for 32 Mbit chips, but it seems
> they all were SPI and not FWH/LPC.
>
> Regards,
> Carl-Daniel

The chip set is NVidia, exactly the same as a Gigabyte M57SLI,

AMD Athlon(tm) 64 dual core
Nvidea MCP55
ITE IT8716F
PMC Pm49FL004

The board is a DFI Infinity NF570, and I have done a little tutorial on 
it, (the code changes from M57SLI to NF570 are trivial)

http://www.coreboot.org/DFI_NF570_Build_Tutorial

I have no real knowledge of BIOS chips, and the handbook just describes 
the "Award BIOS" as though this is all you need to know.  At my stage of 
learning I just do not know about  "SPI and not FWH/LPC", (yet).

If I know exactly what to order, I can probably get them, but anything 
with 49FL in it just comes in 4M bit or 8M Bit.

Chris Lingard

[Chris Lingard]

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> On 29.11.2008 10:57, Chris Lingard wrote:
> > Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have
> > some Pm49FL008 too.
> >
> > I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this type
> Can you tell us more about your mainboard chipset? The Pm49FL004 can do
> LPC and FWH, but a board only needs one of them.
>
> I thought I had seen some data sheets for 32 Mbit chips, but it seems
> they all were SPI and not FWH/LPC.

Thanks for all the information.  I have done some reading and got the 
data sheets.  My chips are PLCC, (nearly square with pins on all four 
sides).

So am I stuck?  They do not make large capacity {SST,Pm}49LF0??) PLCC 
chips, or is it just an old chip?

Chris Lingard

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

On 01.12.2008 11:40, Chris Lingard wrote:
> Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> > On 29.11.2008 10:57, Chris Lingard wrote:
> > > Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have
> > > some Pm49FL008 too.
> > >
> > > I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this type
> > Can you tell us more about your mainboard chipset? The Pm49FL004 can do
> > LPC and FWH, but a board only needs one of them.
> >
> > I thought I had seen some data sheets for 32 Mbit chips, but it seems
> > they all were SPI and not FWH/LPC.
>
> Thanks for all the information.  I have done some reading and got the
> data sheets.  My chips are PLCC, (nearly square with pins on all four
> sides).

Ah, that's an old trap. Your chips have a PLCC32 housing, but the
housing is unrelated to the protocol used by the chips.
The protocol for recent chips can be LPC, FWH and SPI. To make matters
more complicated, FWH is a special case variant of LPC with one bit set
differently. That means some data sheets mention the chips speak LPC
although they will not respond to regular LPC read/write cycles.

I've tried to create a marketing language -> chip type mapping below:
- FWH -> FWH
- Firmware Hub -> FWH
- LPC Firmware -> FWH
- Firmware Memory -> FWH
- Low Pin Count (if Firmware/FWH is not mentioned) -> LPC
- LPC (if Firmware is not mentioned) -> LPC

SST data sheets have the following conventions:
"LPC Memory Read" -> LPC
"Firmware Memory Read" -> FWH
If both are mentioned, the chip supports both.
> So am I stuck?  They do not make large capacity {SST,Pm}49LF0??) PLCC
> chips, or is it just an old chip?

Regards,
Carl-Daniel

[Joseph Smith]

> I've tried to create a marketing language -> chip type mapping below:
> FWH -> FWH
> Firmware Hub -> FWH
> LPC Firmware -> FWH
> Firmware Memory -> FWH
> Low Pin Count (if Firmware/FWH is not mentioned) -> LPC
> LPC (if Firmware is not mentioned) -> LPC
>
> SST data sheets have the following conventions:
> "LPC Memory Read" -> LPC
> "Firmware Memory Read" -> FWH
> If both are mentioned, the chip supports both.

This is great info Carl-Daniel. Is it listed on the Wiki somewhere? If not
it should be. I always thought we should have a little bit of technical
info in our flashrom "Supported devices" table. A column with the chips
package size (PLCC32, DIP24, etc) and a column with what type the chip is
(ex. FWH, LPC, SPI, etc). This would make it a great reference point for
people looking for a replacement chip, or larger compatable chip. Do you
agree?

[Peter Stuge]

Hi Chris,

Chris Lingard wrote:
> Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have
> some Pm49FL008 too.
>
> I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this
> type of chip, please let me know the part number.  (I would much
> appreciate the exact detail, as the supplier asks incomprehensible
> questions)

Sadly the largest I think you can find that will fit your board is 16
Mbit. Look for the part number SST49LF160C-33-4C-NHE.

Chris Lingard wrote:
> So am I stuck?  They do not make large capacity {SST,Pm}49LF0??)
> PLCC chips, or is it just an old chip?

I'm afraid SST have the largest PLCC package chips at 16 Mbit. The
market demands smaller package chips, so while it's technically
trivial none of the flash manufacturers make larger PLCC package
chips.

If you have a budget you could buy an Artec dongle (150EUR+VAT) and a
PLCC adapter from me (80EUR+VAT) to get 4x32Mbit which is rewritable
through a USB port, but it is a bit costly.

//Peter

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

On 02.12.2008 13:00, Peter Stuge wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Chris Lingard wrote:
> > Now I need help, my machine has Pm49FL004 chips as standard, I have
> > some Pm49FL008 too.
> >
> > I want a 32 M Bit flash chip, if there is such a thing for this
> > type of chip, please let me know the part number.  (I would much
> > appreciate the exact detail, as the supplier asks incomprehensible
> > questions)
>
> Sadly the largest I think you can find that will fit your board is 16
> Mbit. Look for the part number SST49LF160C-33-4C-NHE.
>
> Chris Lingard wrote:
> > So am I stuck?  They do not make large capacity {SST,Pm}49LF0??)
> > PLCC chips, or is it just an old chip?
>
> I'm afraid SST have the largest PLCC package chips at 16 Mbit. The
> market demands smaller package chips, so while it's technically
> trivial none of the flash manufacturers make larger PLCC package
> chips.
>
> If you have a budget you could buy an Artec dongle (150EUR+VAT) and a
> PLCC adapter from me (80EUR+VAT) to get 4x32Mbit which is rewritable
> through a USB port, but it is a bit costly.

You can also stack up to 16 of the 16 Mbit chips on top of each other,
switching betwee them with the ID[0..3] lines. Depending on how your
mainboard is wired up, you won't even need additional circuitry. And 256
Mbit should be enough for you.

Regards,
Carl-Daniel

[Chris Lingard]

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
> On 02.12.2008 13:00, Peter Stuge wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
> You can also stack up to 16 of the 16 Mbit chips on top of each other,
> switching betwee them with the ID[0..3] lines. Depending on how your
> mainboard is wired up, you won't even need additional circuitry. And 256
> Mbit should be enough for you.
>
> Regards,
> Carl-Daniel

LOL, yes that would be great.

I have ordered some SST49LF160 chips, so will settle for 16Mbit. I 
should be able to get a kernel into it.  Many thanks for all your help.

Chris