Hello, I noticed the Supported Motherboards page was updated to list the flash info. Wouldn't it make more sense to put this info on the flashrom page???
Supported Motherboards page I can agree with a socked/non-socketed column. I think there should just be two columns. One with the flash vender/model info like we do with the northbridge, southbridge, superio, etc and one with socked/non-socketed. Everything else should go to flashrom.
P.S. There are many dirrerent size PLCC packages. We may want to change this to PLCC32.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
Hello, I noticed the Supported Motherboards page was updated to list the flash info. Wouldn't it make more sense to put this info on the flashrom page???
Supported Motherboards page I can agree with a socked/non-socketed column. I think there should just be two columns. One with the flash vender/model info like we do with the northbridge, southbridge, superio, etc and one with socked/non-socketed. Everything else should go to flashrom.
Why limit the info? It doesn't have to be one place or the other, it can be both places, and I can see the benefit of having it on the Supported Motherboards page. Socketed/non-socketed is very useful info though.
P.S. There are many dirrerent size PLCC packages. We may want to change this to PLCC32.
Technically, yes, but I'd say that 99% (if not higher) PLCC flash chips on PC motherboards are PLCC32, so I'd say it's not important.
-Corey
Dear list,
Am Freitag, den 12.12.2008, 20:05 -0500 schrieb Corey Osgood:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
I noticed the Supported Motherboards page was updated to list the flash info. Wouldn't it make more sense to put this info on the flashrom page??? Supported Motherboards page I can agree with a socked/non-socketed column. I think there should just be two columns. One with the flash vender/model info like we do with the northbridge, southbridge, superio, etc and one with socked/non-socketed. Everything else should go to flashrom.Why limit the info? It doesn't have to be one place or the other, it can be both places, and I can see the benefit of having it on the Supported Motherboards page. Socketed/non-socketed is very useful info though.
Would not both places be redundant and require a lot of work to keep in sync?
[…]
Thanks,
Paul
Paul Menzel wrote:
Would not both places be redundant and require a lot of work to keep in sync?
Surely redundant, but the idea may be to have info both online and offline, on the web and in the flashrom binary.
It could be effortless by generating wikitext programmatically.
//Peter
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:32:30AM +0100, Peter Stuge wrote:
Paul Menzel wrote:
Would not both places be redundant and require a lot of work to keep in sync?
Surely redundant, but the idea may be to have info both online and offline, on the web and in the flashrom binary.
Yep, that's one of the points.
There is a certain level of redundancy, but no as much as it may seem. Note that we're tracking slightly different things on the "Supported_Motherboards" and "Flashrom" wiki pages.
On http://www.coreboot.org/Supported_Motherboards we list mostly board properties:
(1) Type of ROM chip package / socket (PLCC32, DIP32, DIP8, etc).
(2) The type(s) of "protocols" the board/chipset supports (LPC, FWH, ...). This is not the same as what the "Flashrom" wiki page should/will list, for instance some chips may support both LPC _and_ FWH, but a certain board may only support one of them. The flashrom wiki page will only list which types the _chip_ supports, this entry on "Supported_Motherboards" lists what the board supports.
(3) Whether there's a socket on the board (or the chip is soldered).
(4) Whether flashrom works fine on this board (_not_ whether it supports the chip which happens to be in this board per default).
Also, this field (on "Supported_Motherboards") is not fully redundant with the field in the "Flashrom" wiki page; flashrom supports many boards which have no coreboot support whatsoever. The point of the Supported_Motherboards page is to have a fast overview of most relevant info if a user is checking if/which board is supported, or which board he/she could buy, or which (type of) ROM chip he/she needs to buy as a spare for a given board.
The http://www.coreboot.org/Flashrom page will have _some_ of that info duplicated, but not really much. It's more about supported southbridges and chips, the only duplication is the list of boards which flashrom supports and which also happen to work in coreboot. But that's ok, I think we can live with that amount of duplication; we really want a quick overview in "Supported_Motherboards" without too much other clicking-around...
Thanks, Uwe.
My point is this: If one day my bios chip died for some unknown reason or if I just wanted to upgrade it to a larger size, it would be nice I could just look at the table on the Flashrom page and find all the corresponding chips that I could use for a replacement, that's all. You may think that is the lazy method for not spending hours looking through datasheets, but isn't a tool supposed to make your life easier? The table would become a great cross-reference tool. That's my two sense...
Joseph Smith wrote:
My point is this: If one day my bios chip died for some unknown reason or if I just wanted to upgrade it to a larger size, it would be nice I could just look at the table on the Flashrom page and find all the corresponding chips that I could use for a replacement, that's all.
A flash equivalent table is a great idea, but I don't think it belongs on Supported_Mainboards. I would like to see it on a page of it's own.
You may think that is the lazy method for not spending hours looking through datasheets,
If you know what you need it's really quick to check a few datasheets. If you have to find out what the old chip was first it takes a little longer, but certainly not hours. Just shoot the list an email until this table is in place, several on the list are happy to help you find the right chip for your board.
//Peter
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:32:09 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Joseph Smith wrote:
My point is this: If one day my bios chip died for some unknown reason
or
if I just wanted to upgrade it to a larger size, it would be nice I
could
just look at the table on the Flashrom page and find all the
corresponding
chips that I could use for a replacement, that's all.
A flash equivalent table is a great idea, but I don't think it belongs on Supported_Mainboards. I would like to see it on a page of it's own.
That's is my whole point in the first place, that's why I started this thread! It should not be on the supported mainboards page it should be on the flashrom page, part of the flashrom table...
Joseph Smith wrote:
A flash equivalent table is a great idea, but I don't think it belongs on Supported_Mainboards. I would like to see it on a page of it's own.
That's is my whole point in the first place, that's why I started this thread!
Sorry, that wasn't clear to me at first.
It should not be on the supported mainboards page it should be on the flashrom page, part of the flashrom table...
I disagree with that though, the flashrom page should only be about the flashrom program. I think the equivalents table can be relevant also outside the scope of the flashrom program, so would like such a table to go on it's own page.
//Peter
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:02:18 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
It should not be on the supported mainboards page it should be on the flashrom page, part of the flashrom table...
I disagree with that though, the flashrom page should only be about the flashrom program. I think the equivalents table can be relevant also outside the scope of the flashrom program, so would like such a table to go on it's own page.
Want to talk about some duplicated data, without a database table behind both pages,this would be absurd, reduculous, and a waste of time.
Joseph Smith wrote:
It should not be on the supported mainboards page it should be on the flashrom page, part of the flashrom table...
I disagree with that though, the flashrom page should only be about the flashrom program. I think the equivalents table can be relevant also outside the scope of the flashrom program, so would like such a table to go on it's own page.
Want to talk about some duplicated data, without a database table behind both pages,this would be absurd, reduculous, and a waste of time.
I would suggest having a link in the mainboards table to the flash chip equivalents table for each chip that has been seen on that board. Why duplicate when we can link?
//Peter
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:38:45 +0100, Peter Stuge peter@stuge.se wrote:
Joseph Smith wrote:
It should not be on the supported mainboards page it should be on the flashrom page, part of the flashrom table...
I disagree with that though, the flashrom page should only be about the flashrom program. I think the equivalents table can be relevant also outside the scope of the flashrom program, so would like such a table to go on it's own page.
Want to talk about some duplicated data, without a database table behind both pages,this would be absurd, reduculous, and a waste of time.
I would suggest having a link in the mainboards table to the flash chip equivalents table for each chip that has been seen on that board. Why duplicate when we can link?
That's a great idea in all, but that still doesn't help with the data duplication. I haven't looked into it yet but is there a way to insert mysql database calls into mediawiki? If so I am a wiz with mysql and php, and would be glad to set something up (Stefan, I would need database access). Hell, if you can insert a html frame into a mediawiki page I would be glad to set something up on my mysql database and php frontend.
Joseph Smith wrote:
I would suggest having a link in the mainboards table to the flash chip equivalents table for each chip that has been seen on that board. Why duplicate when we can link?
That's a great idea in all, but that still doesn't help with the data duplication.
What data do you mean is duplicated? Sorry, I don't follow.
I haven't looked into it yet but is there a way to insert mysql database calls into mediawiki?
I don't think there is, short of hacking up mediawiki code, which is quite undesirable.
I think it's important that wikis stay self-contained. That said I don't think there is anything wrong with generating some content and even storing it in the wiki automatically. But it's a bad idea when the content may end up being changed in the wiki itself.
Anyway, I don't understand why we need a database. I think a wiki page would be perfect.
//Peter
Anyway, I don't understand why we need a database. I think a wiki page would be perfect.
OK then never mind, I don't have time to write the same thing on three different pages, If I need a compatible chip I will just ask the mailing list.
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Joseph Smith joe@settoplinux.org wrote:
Anyway, I don't understand why we need a database. I think a wiki page would be perfect.
OK then never mind, I don't have time to write the same thing on three different pages, If I need a compatible chip I will just ask the mailing list.
Here's what I'm imagining a table would look like (these values are probably wrong):
*PLCC:* | SST 49LF004 | 512K | 3.3V | | Winbond W39V080A | 1024K | 3.3V | | PMC 49LF004 | 512K | 3.3V |
* Yellow: FWH Blue: FWH Green: LPC/FWH
The mainboard page lists the flash part, say SST49LF004, and that's a link to the PLCC table. It may also say something along the lines of "only supports up to 2Mb/512K flash parts." To cross reference, you find a chip of the same voltage and color in the table, or a "green" chip should work for either FWH or LPC. Where's the data duplication?
-Corey
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Corey Osgood -
Joseph Smith -
Paul Menzel -
Peter Stuge -
Uwe Hermann