Re: [LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[Vlad C.]

> Suggestions:
> Asus M2N-E
>
> (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=101&l3=308&model=1181...)
> MSI K9N Platinum
>
> (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=...)

Simon,

The MSI K9N Platinum motherboard has an IEEE1394 (FireWire) chipset,
while the Asus M2N-E does not. You mentioned earlier that you’re
designing a PVR/MediaCenter PC -- lots of consumer devices such as
cable boxes and digital cameras use FireWire to transfer images and
video. MythTV can use FireWire[1] and according to Wikipedia almost
all modern digital camcorders have included this connection since
1995. [2]

I think the MSI K9N Platinum motherboard would therefore be better
suited for a Multimedia PC.

Vlad

[1] http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/FireWire
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire

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[LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[Simon Labrecque]

Good point. While it would be quite easy to add FireWire support through a
PCI card, it sure would be nice to have support for it native to the
motherboard.

The problem with the MSI K9N is that the Northbridge's passive cooler is
said to get very, VERY hot, which might be problematic in our application as
noise (and therefore airflow) needs to be minimized.

I haven't tested it personally though, but every review I read on the K9N
seems to mention the heat issue. That's why I liked the Abit board in the
first place; passively cooled, but with heat pipes and an easy way out for
the heat.

I guess we would need to test such a board in our "harsh" environment to
know if it could survive there.

Simon Labrecque

-----Original Message-----
From: Vlad C. [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:23 AM
To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU
> Suggestions:
> Asus M2N-E
>
> (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=101&l3=308&model=1181...

=2)
> MSI K9N Platinum
>
> (http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UI

D=730)

Simon,

The MSI K9N Platinum motherboard has an IEEE1394 (FireWire) chipset,
while the Asus M2N-E does not. You mentioned earlier that you're
designing a PVR/MediaCenter PC -- lots of consumer devices such as
cable boxes and digital cameras use FireWire to transfer images and
video. MythTV can use FireWire[1] and according to Wikipedia almost
all modern digital camcorders have included this connection since
1995. [2]

I think the MSI K9N Platinum motherboard would therefore be better
suited for a Multimedia PC.

Vlad

[1] http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/FireWire
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire

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________
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[LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[Bari Ari]

Simon Labrecque wrote:
> Good point. While it would be quite easy to add FireWire support through a
> PCI card, it sure would be nice to have support for it native to the
> motherboard.
>
> The problem with the MSI K9N is that the Northbridge's passive cooler is
> said to get very, VERY hot, which might be problematic in our application as
> noise (and therefore airflow) needs to be minimized.
>
> I haven't tested it personally though, but every review I read on the K9N
> seems to mention the heat issue. That's why I liked the Abit board in the
> first place; passively cooled, but with heat pipes and an easy way out for
> the heat.
>
> I guess we would need to test such a board in our "harsh" environment to
> know if it could survive there.

A few other points you may wish to consider are:

The 6 month lifespan (approximately) of an off-the-shelf. I'm not
against LinuxBIOS (I've been lurking on the list since 1999) but the
motherboard you pick today may be out of production by the time you go
to market.

Will your company allocate resources in the future to keep up with
LinuxBIOS ports for new boards or revs? It will be great if you do.
Hopefully MSI will also get onboard with LinuxBIOS and support this from
the factory.

Your issues with thermal management are a bit off topic on this list,
but a 100% passively cooled AM2 designs are possible. We have done them.
I've never seen an off-the-shelf mainboard come with an entirely passive
cooling system for any cpu over a few (5-10) watts. You would however be
able to develop a passive cooling system for the K9N that use the <35 W
AM2 processors. I just don't see this coming out of the box.

-Bari

[LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[Simon Labrecque]

> > The 6 month lifespan (approximately) of an off-the-shelf
> > ...
> > Will your company allocate resources in the future to keep up with
> > LinuxBIOS ports for new boards or revs? It will be great if you do.

As most smaller companies, we need to distribute our resources carefully.
Currently, the most advantageous way for us for this particular project
(considering costs and time-to-market, among others) is to use off-the-shelf
hardware. We do realize the implications of that choice.

If the platform is successful, the next "revision" of the product would use
different components (motherboard and cpu, mainly), and yes, we would
support LinuxBIOS in this case and do whatever is needed to get our chosen
components to work with it. In fact, I came to this list with the idea of
hiring someone to get LinuxBIOS to work for our chosen components (and I
wrote about it in my first post), but hey, if someone wants to do it for
free, that's even better ;)

We will be glad to donate back to the LinuxBIOS community if our product has
the smallest success.
> > ... passive cooling system...

Passively cooled CPU would be nice, but that's not a requirement per se
right now. However, a passively cooled *motherboard*
(northbridge/southbridge) is a strong plus.
> > ... I just don't see this coming out of the box.

We have no problem in modifying the off-the-shelf hardware we chose, as long
as the bill fits our cost requirements.

Thanks for your comments and input.

Simon Labrecque

-----Original Message-----
From: Bari Ari [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:10 PM
To: Simon Labrecque
Cc: 'Vlad C.'; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

Simon Labrecque wrote:
> Good point. While it would be quite easy to add FireWire support through a
> PCI card, it sure would be nice to have support for it native to the
> motherboard.
>
> The problem with the MSI K9N is that the Northbridge's passive cooler is
> said to get very, VERY hot, which might be problematic in our application

as
> noise (and therefore airflow) needs to be minimized.
>
> I haven't tested it personally though, but every review I read on the K9N
> seems to mention the heat issue. That's why I liked the Abit board in the
> first place; passively cooled, but with heat pipes and an easy way out for
> the heat.
>
> I guess we would need to test such a board in our "harsh" environment to
> know if it could survive there.

A few other points you may wish to consider are:

The 6 month lifespan (approximately) of an off-the-shelf. I'm not
against LinuxBIOS (I've been lurking on the list since 1999) but the
motherboard you pick today may be out of production by the time you go
to market.

Will your company allocate resources in the future to keep up with
LinuxBIOS ports for new boards or revs? It will be great if you do.
Hopefully MSI will also get onboard with LinuxBIOS and support this from
the factory.

Your issues with thermal management are a bit off topic on this list,
but a 100% passively cooled AM2 designs are possible. We have done them.
I've never seen an off-the-shelf mainboard come with an entirely passive
cooling system for any cpu over a few (5-10) watts. You would however be
able to develop a passive cooling system for the K9N that use the <35 W
AM2 processors. I just don't see this coming out of the box.

-Bari

[LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[David H. Barr]

On 11/30/06, Simon Labrecque  wrote:
> The problem with the MSI K9N is that the Northbridge's passive cooler is
> said to get very, VERY hot, which might be problematic in our application as
> noise (and therefore airflow) needs to be minimized.
>
> I haven't tested it personally though, but every review I read on the K9N
> seems to mention the heat issue. That's why I liked the Abit board in the
> first place; passively cooled, but with heat pipes and an easy way out for
> the heat.

I have my ms7260 v1.0 (AKA MSI K9N Neo-f) in-hand, and I can verify
that the northbridge is literally painfully hot.  The good news is the
heatsink itself is quite large, and there's a 3-prong header marked
"NBFAN" directly adjacent.

Either a small fan attached to the stock heatsink or a large
replacement passive heatsink ought to do the trick nicely.  Close-up
pictures are available upon request «grin».

Regards,
-dhbarr.

[LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[ron minnich]

On 11/30/06, Vlad C.  wrote:
> I think the MSI K9N Platinum motherboard would therefore be better
> suited for a Multimedia PC.

also, MSI is proving to be very supportive of linuxbios

ron

[LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

[Simon Labrecque]

Seems like the MSI K9N Platinum would be a good choice, then.

YH, what do you say?

Simon Labrecque

-----Original Message-----
From: ron minnich [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:26 PM
To: Vlad C.
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [LinuxBIOS] Support for recent chipset and powerful desktop CPU

On 11/30/06, Vlad C.  wrote:
> I think the MSI K9N Platinum motherboard would therefore be better
> suited for a Multimedia PC.

also, MSI is proving to be very supportive of linuxbios

ron