Re: [coreboot] Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode

[Timothy Pearson]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

That's just the HAP bit.  The ME is limited but NOT disabled, and the
remaining stubs are still hackable [1].

Neither the ME or the PSP can ever be removed from their respective
systems.  They can both be limited to some extent, but to call either of
them "disabled" is rather far from the truth.

This all being said, it's great to see a light being shed on the ME.  It
shows just how dangerous an embedded, mandatory core with signed
firmware can be.

[1] https://twitter.com/rootkovska/status/938458875522666497

On 12/08/2017 07:51 AM, Zoran Stojsavljevic wrote:
> Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode
> http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html
>
> I just managed (few hours ago) to read this article (way after replying
> to previous thread about Dell HAP, I read only few intro paragraphs)...
> It is, after all, amazing how far these two people, *Mark Ermolov and
> Maxim Goryachy* progressed with ME debugging/cracking
> and understanding how ME is connected/related to the INTEL platforms'
> bring up!
>
> I just stumbled over it upon searching about ME, and I know what they
> did achieve previously. They achieved some
> steps forward... :-)
>
> I did not see that this article was published before on Coreboot (excuse
> me for my ignorance if I missed it), but it is worth
> reading, every word of it, especially the second part!
>
> What is described on the second part is way (much) more than I was
> willing to lament on (since in the lieu of the Legal
> issues). Especially on BringUP stages. Excellent read!
>
> Something is definitely changing in the Open Source World... And I say,
> I am very happy to read such articles!
>
> Man, there are very serious people out there trying to demystify secrets.
>
> I will read again this article later, very concentrated... Trying to put
> some more comprehensive picture in my mind.
>
> Thank you, all of you, Black Hat, Positive Technology, and others!
>
> Molodci, rebjata!
>
> Zoran

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
[phone] (direct line)
[phone] (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJaKprdAAoJEK+E3vEXDOFbvZUH/0NN/gXYoyR3UIi/JWtZliYL
bo7UAdl7lzLHPzNcZLBeuoYFICl38qKStS/fOHtDj8kHqRzSrMsrWsp7o11K8JjL
vypOIhXnb+S+zBPI9e/ZLx6d9EKSV6KgWQJnVnzdh5ynNP+duR7Hbc322fu0qb/O
XbEyZwlwmMwT9+OJ6fRusyACMdf8RtOrgrg3lyJ4oW66s48RYr3UN+PLImwYH3fX
2Kid5DxtqMQ2BR6cDHKnlGJuV+X83CTZempfgodJWSaQneg7tKqwCa39/Zv9FbC6
RFQ4Z3gkGtXDl4Br2ovxHcuqUtMuuVUwYSoa31nilu0GJRVpA2mgjVMxVw7UGf0=
=AeQJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode

[Alberto Bursi]

On 12/08/2017 02:59 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> That's just the HAP bit.  The ME is limited but NOT disabled, and the
> remaining stubs are still hackable [1].
>
> Neither the ME or the PSP can ever be removed from their respective
> systems.  They can both be limited to some extent, but to call either of
> them "disabled" is rather far from the truth.

Hacking them requires being able to write in the SPI flash, or to have 
buggy UEFI firmware. Which means most systems are still vulnerable.

But it is also true that if someone can hack UEFI he pwns you anyway, 
even without ME.

So imho ME with the HAP bit can be called "disabled", although the fight 
isn't over as ME isn't the only thing that was a threat anyway.

There is still need to secure the UEFI firmware (which is needed even if 
ME didn't exist), and doing a hardware mod to have a hardware switch to 
turn the SPI chip read-only at the hardware level (also needed 
regardless of ME).

I think many SPI chips only need some pin pulled high/low to go in 
read-only mode, and I frankly trust a dumb switch many orders of 
magnitude more than Boot Guard or anything software-based.

-Alberto

Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode

[Zoran Stojsavljevic]

> Neither the ME or the PSP can ever be removed from their respective

systems.

I already wrote extensively about this in the previous thread (I 1000%
agree with you, Tim). But these people revealed
the almost whole architecture how ME boots the modern INTEL platform, and,
frankly, I never expected that this will be
described very precisely, as they did.

In other words, I never would have expected the description how BUP and
stages work, and other details (what they
wrote/investigated in that article) will ever see/emerge on the Day Light!
:-)

Zoran

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Timothy Pearson <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> That's just the HAP bit.  The ME is limited but NOT disabled, and the
> remaining stubs are still hackable [1].
>
> Neither the ME or the PSP can ever be removed from their respective
> systems.  They can both be limited to some extent, but to call either of
> them "disabled" is rather far from the truth.
>
> This all being said, it's great to see a light being shed on the ME.  It
> shows just how dangerous an embedded, mandatory core with signed
> firmware can be.
>
> [1] https://twitter.com/rootkovska/status/938458875522666497
>
> On 12/08/2017 07:51 AM, Zoran Stojsavljevic wrote:
> > Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode
> > http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html
> >
> > I just managed (few hours ago) to read this article (way after replying
> > to previous thread about Dell HAP, I read only few intro paragraphs)...
> > It is, after all, amazing how far these two people, *Mark Ermolov and
> > Maxim Goryachy* progressed with ME debugging/cracking
> > and understanding how ME is connected/related to the INTEL platforms'
> > bring up!
> >
> > I just stumbled over it upon searching about ME, and I know what they
> > did achieve previously. They achieved some
> > steps forward... :-)
> >
> > I did not see that this article was published before on Coreboot (excuse
> > me for my ignorance if I missed it), but it is worth
> > reading, every word of it, especially the second part!
> >
> > What is described on the second part is way (much) more than I was
> > willing to lament on (since in the lieu of the Legal
> > issues). Especially on BringUP stages. Excellent read!
> >
> > Something is definitely changing in the Open Source World... And I say,
> > I am very happy to read such articles!
> >
> > Man, there are very serious people out there trying to demystify secrets.
> >
> > I will read again this article later, very concentrated... Trying to put
> > some more comprehensive picture in my mind.
> >
> > Thank you, all of you, Black Hat, Positive Technology, and others!
> >
> > Molodci, rebjata!
> >
> > Zoran
>
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> [phone] (direct line)
> [phone] (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1
>
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJaKprdAAoJEK+E3vEXDOFbvZUH/0NN/gXYoyR3UIi/JWtZliYL
> bo7UAdl7lzLHPzNcZLBeuoYFICl38qKStS/fOHtDj8kHqRzSrMsrWsp7o11K8JjL
> vypOIhXnb+S+zBPI9e/ZLx6d9EKSV6KgWQJnVnzdh5ynNP+duR7Hbc322fu0qb/O
> XbEyZwlwmMwT9+OJ6fRusyACMdf8RtOrgrg3lyJ4oW66s48RYr3UN+PLImwYH3fX
> 2Kid5DxtqMQ2BR6cDHKnlGJuV+X83CTZempfgodJWSaQneg7tKqwCa39/Zv9FbC6
> RFQ4Z3gkGtXDl4Br2ovxHcuqUtMuuVUwYSoa31nilu0GJRVpA2mgjVMxVw7UGf0=
> =AeQJ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----