Hello Everyone,
One good idea came up recently: to organize a “Flashrom Developers Meeting” so that we can talk to each other, discuss current development and future plans! The idea is, specifically, to have it regularly - and once a month seems just about right. The attendance will be, obviously, entirely optional, however one thing is important: to take notes from what has been discussed (and notes should be public).
The main two questions are: when? (time) and which software to use.
Time is a tricky question, and it depends on who is going to attend the meeting. We can optimize either for EU-US or for EU-AU. I can say for sure, we have at least one person from AU who is going to attend ;) (that’s me). If it turns out that we have people all over the planet who want to attend, and there is no one time that suits all, then as a plan B we can alternate between two options. That will be time1 and time2 alternating.
Software. What do people use and like? I am used to Google Meet, and don’t know much about other options.
What do people think of the idea? Let’s discuss!
Hi Anastasia,
awesome idea!
Software. What do people use and like? I am used to Google Meet, and don’t know much about other options.
Personally, I don't have that much preferences. For different reasons, we (re-)evaluated [1] different solutions for the coreboot meeting during the last months. These were Google Meet, BigBlueButton and Jitsi. All of them had at least some minor issues, but Jitsi also had major issues.
* Google Meet: During the last months, it happened a few times that people weren't able to join the meeting. Also, the meeting shouldn't be created by a Googler, since Google made some policy changes (see meeting notes). It seems "free" Google Meet has some limits?
* BigBlueButton: People complained about poor background noise filtering (you can still mute yourself), but beside that everything worked fine.
* Jitsi: It seems, when people use different browsers, then audio and/or video break very randomly, which make it unusable. Many people on the internet have similar problems.
However, in general Google Meet and BigBlueButton are fine for me :)
I would use Google Docs for taking notes.
Time is a tricky question, and it depends on who is going to attend the meeting. We can optimize either for EU-US or for EU-AU. I can say for sure, we have at least one person from AU who is going to attend ;) (that’s me). If it turns out that we have people all over the planet who want to attend, and there is no one time that suits all, then as a plan B we can alternate between two options. That will be time1 and time2 alternating.
Germany here. This site gives a good overview about timezones https://everytimezone.com
I suggest we collect some people and then we create a poll to get an overview about which times work most for people.
// Felix
[1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NRXqXcLBp5pFkHiJbrLdv3Spqh1Hu086HYkKrgKj...
Hej hej,
+1 for this idea also from my side. I'm in.
Until now I haven't used Google Meet, but don't see a problem with trying it. Since you have initialized this, feel free to set the time to EU-AU.
-- Thomas
On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 21:49 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
One good idea came up recently: to organize a “Flashrom Developers Meeting” so that we can talk to each other, discuss current development and future plans! The idea is, specifically, to have it regularly - and once a month seems just about right. The attendance will be, obviously, entirely optional, however one thing is important: to take notes from what has been discussed (and notes should be public).
The main two questions are: when? (time) and which software to use.
Time is a tricky question, and it depends on who is going to attend the meeting. We can optimize either for EU-US or for EU-AU. I can say for sure, we have at least one person from AU who is going to attend ;) (that’s me). If it turns out that we have people all over the planet who want to attend, and there is no one time that suits all, then as a plan B we can alternate between two options. That will be time1 and time2 alternating.
Software. What do people use and like? I am used to Google Meet, and don’t know much about other options.
What do people think of the idea? Let’s discuss! _______________________________________________ flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
Thanks heaps Felix for sharing the experience from coreboot meetings, it is useful! We can learn something from it.
We can, meanwhile, start thinking about: what EU-AU time could be? There are two options: earlier in the morning and later in the evening (or swapped).
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 11:00 AM Thomas Heijligen src@posteo.de wrote:
Hej hej,
+1 for this idea also from my side. I'm in.
Until now I haven't used Google Meet, but don't see a problem with trying it. Since you have initialized this, feel free to set the time to EU-AU.
-- Thomas
On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 21:49 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
One good idea came up recently: to organize a “Flashrom Developers Meeting” so that we can talk to each other, discuss current development and future plans! The idea is, specifically, to have it regularly - and once a month seems just about right. The attendance will be, obviously, entirely optional, however one thing is important: to take notes from what has been discussed (and notes should be public).
The main two questions are: when? (time) and which software to use.
Time is a tricky question, and it depends on who is going to attend the meeting. We can optimize either for EU-US or for EU-AU. I can say for sure, we have at least one person from AU who is going to attend ;) (that’s me). If it turns out that we have people all over the planet who want to attend, and there is no one time that suits all, then as a plan B we can alternate between two options. That will be time1 and time2 alternating.
Software. What do people use and like? I am used to Google Meet, and don’t know much about other options.
What do people think of the idea? Let’s discuss! _______________________________________________ flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
My suggestion would be to have Europe in the morning. This is hard if someone from the US want to paticipate, but it's more pleasant for us.
Here an example calculation for 07:00 UTC:
07:00 UTC 08:00 Central European Time; Germany, Poland... 09:00 Central European Summer Time (from march 27th) 17:00 Australian Eastern Standard Time; Sidney (from april 2nd?) 18:00 Australian Eastern Daylight Time; Sidney (23:00 Pacific Standard Time; California)
-- Thomas
On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 19:49 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Thanks heaps Felix for sharing the experience from coreboot meetings, it is useful! We can learn something from it.
We can, meanwhile, start thinking about: what EU-AU time could be? There are two options: earlier in the morning and later in the evening (or swapped).
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 11:00 AM Thomas Heijligen src@posteo.de wrote:
Hej hej,
+1 for this idea also from my side. I'm in.
Until now I haven't used Google Meet, but don't see a problem with trying it. Since you have initialized this, feel free to set the time to EU-AU.
-- Thomas
On Tue, 2022-02-01 at 21:49 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
One good idea came up recently: to organize a “Flashrom Developers Meeting” so that we can talk to each other, discuss current development and future plans! The idea is, specifically, to have it regularly - and once a month seems just about right. The attendance will be, obviously, entirely optional, however one thing is important: to take notes from what has been discussed (and notes should be public).
The main two questions are: when? (time) and which software to use.
Time is a tricky question, and it depends on who is going to attend the meeting. We can optimize either for EU-US or for EU-AU. I can say for sure, we have at least one person from AU who is going to attend ;) (that’s me). If it turns out that we have people all over the planet who want to attend, and there is no one time that suits all, then as a plan B we can alternate between two options. That will be time1 and time2 alternating.
Software. What do people use and like? I am used to Google Meet, and don’t know much about other options.
What do people think of the idea? Let’s discuss! _______________________________________________ flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 19:49 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
We can, meanwhile, start thinking about: what EU-AU time could be? There are two options: earlier in the morning and later in the evening (or swapped).
I played around with the timezones a little and I tried using reasonable times.
UTC 07:00 am: * 08:00 am Germany (UTC+1) * 06:00 pm Sydney (UTC+11) * 11:00 pm Pacific Time (UTC-8)
UTC 09:00 pm: * 10:00 pm Germany (UTC+1) * 08:00 am Sydney (UTC+11) * 01:00 pm Pacific Time (UTC-8)
I prefer late times, but morning times are fine for me too.
For morning time, 9:00 am or 10:00 am would work better for me, but since it doesn't take place every day 8:00 am should be fine too :)
// Felix
I am just a lurker because I use flashrom to update my apu2 bios, so I am not going to attend anyway (even if it were at a convenient time EST).
However, if I were, then I would reject anything that requires a Google account (or even worse, a facebook account), and also reject anything that requires installing proprietary software.
I suggest looking at jitsi meet, and there are multiple public servers for it besides meet.jit.si. One is calyx.meet.net. FSF associate members can use the FSF instance. It can be self-hosted pretty easily if you have a GNU/Linux server.
I gather there is Big Blue Button too, but I have never tried to use it.
Hi Greg,
thanks for reaching out :)
On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 08:11 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote:
However, if I were, then I would reject anything that requires a Google account (or even worse, a facebook account), and also reject anything that requires installing proprietary software.
A Google account for Google Meet is not needed. It depends on the room settings. So I'm wondering, do you reject Google services in general or just if an account is needed?
// Felix
Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net writes:
Hi Greg,
thanks for reaching out :)
On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 08:11 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote:
However, if I were, then I would reject anything that requires a Google account (or even worse, a facebook account), and also reject anything that requires installing proprietary software.
A Google account for Google Meet is not needed. It depends on the room settings. So I'm wondering, do you reject Google services in general or just if an account is needed?
That's a bit complicated. I find needing accounts (at ad companies) to be the biggest issue, and then there are lesser issues:
Being asked to agree to terms and privacy policy (of google, rather than a separate service with a simple/reasonable policy that only covers that service): I find this objectionable too, and I suspect it would dissuade me from participating about 90% of the time, limiting to the things I really strongly want to participate in. If it's just click and join and no text that tries to claim there is any consent, and the conference itself has a clear privacy policy that prohibits google from retaining the audio and video, it's not so bad. But I don't think people should be asked to grant an advertising company any permission to use or store their image/audio.
I don't think Free Software projects should use proprietary tools, if it's possible/reasonable to avoid them. I realize with videoconferencing that's difficult these days, and it's necessary to make project progress.
(I also realize I'm an outlier; I originally commented privately and was asked to re-comment onlist.)
On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 15:26 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote:
(I also realize I'm an outlier; I originally commented privately and was asked to re-comment onlist.)
Your opinion is very welcome! Thanks for explaining your reasons.
// Felix
Greg, thanks for explaining your point of view! I think there are more people with the same point of view, they are just not replying to the mailing list. So that’s important.
In general, I think it’s better to start trying one thing and then the other, collect experience and then eventually decide on something?
Felix, Thomas, thanks for looking into time zones, this is so nice of you! Unfortunately, time interval from 17.00 to 19.30 is impossible for me, sorry :( 19.30 - 20.30 I can try, it can be better or worse depending on the day of week. Ideal time (for me) would be 8am-9am. Even if it overflows it’s not a problem. I can do this any day between Mon-Thu.
I am also wondering, how many people are reading this thread and thinking “hey folks just decide on something, I will join”. If you just say “+1 to the idea” that would be very useful ! :)
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 5:27 PM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Thu, 2022-02-03 at 15:26 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote:
(I also realize I'm an outlier; I originally commented privately and was asked to re-comment onlist.)
Your opinion is very welcome! Thanks for explaining your reasons.
// Felix
flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
On Fri, 2022-02-04 at 20:10 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Felix, Thomas, thanks for looking into time zones, this is so nice of you! Unfortunately, time interval from 17.00 to 19.30 is impossible for me, sorry :( 19.30 - 20.30 I can try, it can be better or worse depending on the day of week. Ideal time (for me) would be 8am-9am. Even if it overflows it’s not a problem. I can do this any day between Mon-Thu.
Since we have some dates now, I created a poll [1] :)
You can vote with yes, no and maybe. Votes can be edited at any time. All times are UTC+0.
// Felix
Thanks for creating the poll, this is a cool idea!
One thing I realised is that we are probably going to need another time between Apr-Oct. Because of daylight saving time, and clocks will be moving into different directions :\
However I think we will have at least one meeting before Apr!
Another thing to decide (but this one should be easy): since “monthly” does not align nicely with days of week, we can have a meeting once in 4 weeks, or once in 5 weeks. I like 4 weeks, but will agree on 5 as well ;)
On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 3:07 AM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Fri, 2022-02-04 at 20:10 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Felix, Thomas, thanks for looking into time zones, this is so nice of you! Unfortunately, time interval from 17.00 to 19.30 is impossible for me, sorry :( 19.30 - 20.30 I can try, it can be better or worse depending on the day of week. Ideal time (for me) would be 8am-9am. Even if it overflows it’s not a problem. I can do this any day between Mon-Thu.
Since we have some dates now, I created a poll [1] :)
You can vote with yes, no and maybe. Votes can be edited at any time. All times are UTC+0.
// Felix
Hello!
Sorry for the silence for the last 2 weeks, I am back now. Let’s try setting up our first iteration of Dev Meeting? :)
#1 Time
Many thanks to everyone who voted on the poll! We have two winning slots:
Monday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 Wednesday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0
I will just make a suggestion: what about *9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0* ? (for people in AU, please don’t get confused, it will be early morning 10th March)
#2 Meeting notes
We found there is a Meeting Notes document already, created in 2019 and linked on the Home page of flashrom.org since that time. So we will just continue the same doc. Feel free to add agenda, here is the link (and as I said, it is linked from home page, Developers menu): https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFs...
#3 Daylight savings time :\
Whichever time we pick in #1 , it will be effective *between Oct-Mar inclusive*. Because of daylight savings, clocks are moving into a different direction EU/US vs AU and it will be impossible to keep the same time for both sides in the interval Apr-Sep inclusive. We will need another poll. It seems a bit sad to pick a time and only use it once in March, but please remember that we will return to this time in October! :)
#4 Software
Can we use Google Meet for the first meeting and see how it goes? Once the room is created, we will link it to Meeting Notes, so it will be easy to find it.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 4:45 PM Anastasia Klimchuk aklm@chromium.org wrote:
Thanks for creating the poll, this is a cool idea!
One thing I realised is that we are probably going to need another time between Apr-Oct. Because of daylight saving time, and clocks will be moving into different directions :\
However I think we will have at least one meeting before Apr!
Another thing to decide (but this one should be easy): since “monthly” does not align nicely with days of week, we can have a meeting once in 4 weeks, or once in 5 weeks. I like 4 weeks, but will agree on 5 as well ;)
On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 3:07 AM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Fri, 2022-02-04 at 20:10 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Felix, Thomas, thanks for looking into time zones, this is so nice of you! Unfortunately, time interval from 17.00 to 19.30 is impossible for me, sorry :( 19.30 - 20.30 I can try, it can be better or worse depending on the day of week. Ideal time (for me) would be 8am-9am. Even if it overflows it’s not a problem. I can do this any day between Mon-Thu.
Since we have some dates now, I created a poll [1] :)
You can vote with yes, no and maybe. Votes can be edited at any time. All times are UTC+0.
// Felix
-- Anastasia.
+1 to the suggested time/day of 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 on the 9th.
Cheers, Nik
On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 7:52 PM Anastasia Klimchuk aklm@chromium.org wrote:
Hello!
Sorry for the silence for the last 2 weeks, I am back now. Let’s try setting up our first iteration of Dev Meeting? :)
#1 Time
Many thanks to everyone who voted on the poll! We have two winning slots:
Monday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 Wednesday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0
I will just make a suggestion: what about *9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0* ? (for people in AU, please don’t get confused, it will be early morning 10th March)
#2 Meeting notes
We found there is a Meeting Notes document already, created in 2019 and linked on the Home page of flashrom.org since that time. So we will just continue the same doc. Feel free to add agenda, here is the link (and as I said, it is linked from home page, Developers menu): https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFs...
#3 Daylight savings time :\
Whichever time we pick in #1 , it will be effective *between Oct-Mar inclusive*. Because of daylight savings, clocks are moving into a different direction EU/US vs AU and it will be impossible to keep the same time for both sides in the interval Apr-Sep inclusive. We will need another poll. It seems a bit sad to pick a time and only use it once in March, but please remember that we will return to this time in October! :)
#4 Software
Can we use Google Meet for the first meeting and see how it goes? Once the room is created, we will link it to Meeting Notes, so it will be easy to find it.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 4:45 PM Anastasia Klimchuk aklm@chromium.org wrote:
Thanks for creating the poll, this is a cool idea!
One thing I realised is that we are probably going to need another time between Apr-Oct. Because of daylight saving time, and clocks will be moving into different directions :\
However I think we will have at least one meeting before Apr!
Another thing to decide (but this one should be easy): since “monthly” does not align nicely with days of week, we can have a meeting once in 4 weeks, or once in 5 weeks. I like 4 weeks, but will agree on 5 as well ;)
On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 3:07 AM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Fri, 2022-02-04 at 20:10 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Felix, Thomas, thanks for looking into time zones, this is so nice of you! Unfortunately, time interval from 17.00 to 19.30 is impossible for me, sorry :( 19.30 - 20.30 I can try, it can be better or worse depending on the day of week. Ideal time (for me) would be 8am-9am. Even if it overflows it’s not a problem. I can do this any day between Mon-Thu.
Since we have some dates now, I created a poll [1] :)
You can vote with yes, no and maybe. Votes can be edited at any time. All times are UTC+0.
// Felix
-- Anastasia.
-- Anastasia. _______________________________________________ flashrom mailing list -- flashrom@flashrom.org To unsubscribe send an email to flashrom-leave@flashrom.org
On Thu, 2022-02-24 at 19:51 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Monday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 Wednesday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0
I will just make a suggestion: what about 9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 ?
+1 Sounds good to me :)
#4 Software
Can we use Google Meet for the first meeting and see how it goes? Once the room is created, we will link it to Meeting Notes, so it will be easy to find it.
Yes, let's use Google Meet for now and see how that works.
// Felix
ATTENTION ATTENTION
We are locking the date and time for the first Flashrom Dev Meeting:
------------------------------------------------------------- *9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0* -------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't forget to convert to your local time! :)
Meeting room id will be organised very soon and added to the meeting notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFsKqw/edit?usp=sharing document.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 5:54 PM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Thu, 2022-02-24 at 19:51 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Monday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 Wednesday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0
I will just make a suggestion: what about 9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 ?
+1 Sounds good to me :)
#4 Software
Can we use Google Meet for the first meeting and see how it goes? Once the room is created, we will link it to Meeting Notes, so it will be easy to find it.
Yes, let's use Google Meet for now and see how that works.
// Felix
Reminder: this is happening tomorrow! 9th March 21.00-22.00 UTC+0 Meeting id is added to meeting notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFsKqw/edit?usp=sharing document.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 5:48 PM Anastasia Klimchuk aklm@chromium.org wrote:
ATTENTION ATTENTION
We are locking the date and time for the first Flashrom Dev Meeting:
*9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0*
Please don't forget to convert to your local time! :)
Meeting room id will be organised very soon and added to the meeting notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFsKqw/edit?usp=sharing document.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 5:54 PM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Thu, 2022-02-24 at 19:51 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Monday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 Wednesday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0
I will just make a suggestion: what about 9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 ?
+1 Sounds good to me :)
#4 Software
Can we use Google Meet for the first meeting and see how it goes? Once the room is created, we will link it to Meeting Notes, so it will be easy to find it.
Yes, let's use Google Meet for now and see how that works.
// Felix
-- Anastasia.
REMINDER:
Next Dev Meeting is in 1.5 days, please don't forget to convert to your local time. --------------------------------------------------- 23th March 2022, 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 --------------------------------------------------- Meeting id and agenda is added to meeting notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFsKqw/edit?usp=sharing document.
On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 10:08 AM Anastasia Klimchuk aklm@chromium.org wrote:
Reminder: this is happening tomorrow! 9th March 21.00-22.00 UTC+0 Meeting id is added to meeting notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFsKqw/edit?usp=sharing document.
On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 5:48 PM Anastasia Klimchuk aklm@chromium.org wrote:
ATTENTION ATTENTION
We are locking the date and time for the first Flashrom Dev Meeting:
*9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0*
Please don't forget to convert to your local time! :)
Meeting room id will be organised very soon and added to the meeting notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/18qKvEbfPszjsJJGJhwi8kRVDUG3GZkADzQSH6WFsKqw/edit?usp=sharing document.
On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 5:54 PM Felix Singer felixsinger@posteo.net wrote:
On Thu, 2022-02-24 at 19:51 +1100, Anastasia Klimchuk wrote:
Monday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 Wednesday 21:00-22:00 UTC+0
I will just make a suggestion: what about 9th March (Wednesday) 21:00-22:00 UTC+0 ?
+1 Sounds good to me :)
#4 Software
Can we use Google Meet for the first meeting and see how it goes? Once the room is created, we will link it to Meeting Notes, so it will be easy to find it.
Yes, let's use Google Meet for now and see how that works.
// Felix
-- Anastasia.
-- Anastasia.
-
Anastasia Klimchuk -
Felix Singer -
Greg Troxel -
Nikolai Artemiev -
Thomas Heijligen