OpenBIOS

openbios@openbios.org

4297 discussions

Fwd: Re: Hello
by Daniel Engstrom 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

On 13 Oct, Stefan Reinauer wrote: > Hi... > > On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 daniel.engstrom(a)riksnett.no wrote: > >> Here is what I thought: >> A free Open Firmware implementation that runs on my PC would be utterly >> cool and the Right Thing To Do <tm>. > > This is generally correct I would say. But what could/should be discussed > is whether we should really implement what is IEEE Std 1275-1994 > (Official Name of Sun's OpenFirmware). I am a bit in fear that we might > get problems implementing a forth interpreter in 128k together with the > whole stuff we need to get a machine running. (This may be because I am > not familiar with Forth, though) :) Some boards have 4MBit (256k byte) flash these days... And IO though one could use compression. The gunzip object code in linux is 14k bytes and the kernel compresses about 2.5:1 which means that if we total 16k uncompressed code we have 112k left in the PROM. If we get 2.5x as well it will give 280k. If we only get 2x it will still be 224k binary code. I am more worried about NVRAM space, the standard RTC only have 64 bytes of which 50 bytes are general purpose. Ofcuse most board have RTC versions with more RAM up to 4k, but we will need compression or some token based system to fit the needed boot variables. My idea of boot sequence (with my limited knowledge on what IEEE1275 says)... 1: Initialize DRAM controller and check 1st 64k DRAM 2: Enter PM 3: Load segments, TSS, stuff 4: Initialize rest of memory, set DRAM timing CONSERVATIVE, 5: Uncompress main firmware 6: Initialize PIC, DMA, Super IO chip and VGA (If boot console is VGA) 7: Parse NVRAM 8: Scan for FORTH code 9: Execute any FORTH code 10: Boot system >> The boring part is that I believe the Open Firmware specs cost money. > They are available as a book. I ordered it today :-) > It's ISBN Number 1-55937-426-8 IEEE Std 1275-1994: IEEE Standard for Boot > Firmware. What did they charge? >> In order to to this one fist should get the specs (anyone here who has >> them?) And then make an architecture addendum for the i386 and submit >> it to the Open Firmware folks. (Las time I checked their web site there >> were none for the i386, the web site is unresponsive at the moment.) > I found http://playground.sun.com/1275/home.html > which might be interesting as a starting point, but I haven't had a closer > look at it. Thats the page I remember looking at. They have "Instruction Set Architecture Supplement"s for Sparc, PPC and ARM. So if we choose that path we'll need to specify Open Firmware for IA-32 and the PC platform. Everything else (PCI, ISA, VGA, etc, seems to be specified already for CHRP I suppose.) > .signature: No such file or directory :) /Daniel --

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Hello
by Daniel Engstrom 13 Oct '98

13 Oct '98

Hello, All! I have just subscribed to this list. Would anybody be kind and sum up the discussion this far? Regards, Daniel --

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Re: OpenBIOS (was Re: UDI and Politics (was Re: Linux, UDI and SCO.) )
by Stephen Williams 20 Sep '98

20 Sep '98

lkd(a)tantalophile.demon.co.uk said: > So why not make up an embedded Linux kernel and load _that_ into the > FLASH-ROM? Serious overkill, I think. There are better solutions in the forms of: RTEMS http://www.rtems.army.mil/rtems.html ucr http://www.picturel.com etc. These are designed for the embedded environment and don't carry the excess baggage you'd be flashing into EEPROM. (Note that this is going to the OpenBIOS list now.) -- Steve Williams "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. steve(a)icarus.com But I have promises to keep, steve(a)picturel.com and lines to code before I sleep, http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep." --- OpenBIOS -- http://www.linkscape.net/openbios/ openbios-request(a)psychosis.com Body: un/subscribe Problems? dcinege(a)psychosis.com

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Test, list server change
by Dave Cinege 07 Sep '98

07 Sep '98

The openbios list (which has been broken and dead) is now (alive and working) on psychosis.com. The post addy is now openbios(a)psychosis.com -- http://www.psychosis.com/emc/ Elite MicroComputers 732-541-4214 http://www.linuxrouter.org/ Linux Router Project I am a regex s/retard/student/. Pray. There is hope. --- OpenBIOS -- http://www.linkscape.net/openbios/ openbios-request(a)psychosis.com Body: un/subscribe Problems? dcinege(a)psychosis.com

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Re: Continue Development
by Stefan Reinauer 04 Sep '98

04 Sep '98

Hi.. [about:16bit stuff in bios/compatibility to DOS/Windows] > > IMHO this is not the way to go, since many people still have Windows95 > > installed (because of the games), but would like OpenBIOS. I would leave an > > option that links a set of wrapper functions. The problem is, that the available space on a flashchip is today 128 k or 256 k, depending on the system. Because 256k chips are still too rare, I'd suggest that we try to get the most stuff into 128k and maybe only some not really needed features as the animated logo with mp3 sound at bootup into the second 128k :-)) > Would it be possible somehow to have the original bios image on the > harddisk, and then have an option on the boot console where you could > load it into memory and start it? It may very well not be possible, > but if it was, then we could concentrate on our stuff, and let the > original bioses support the win95/98/dos/other os's... Also having > the possibility to select bios at boot would be a cool feature! :) > Just a thought... Well.. This is really a good idea. I once thought about loadable bios plugins on hd or via network, but that may be very hard. The easiest way would probably be to load the bios directly from harddisk, as it can be done on the Alpha AXP boards. We could do this before the cpu is switched to protected mode or afterwards and switch back to realmode to load award or ami bios. The first would save some code, the second seems to me to be the more elegant version, because we can do the whole floppy stuff in PM (which could be necessary if we want to support ia64 some day) Stefan. -- .signature: No such file or directory

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Re: Continue Development
by Simon Richter 04 Sep '98

04 Sep '98

Stefan Reinauer schrieb: > 1) Do we need the 16bit bios stuff in an OpenBIOS? > I'd say a clear "NO" here. This does mean, on the other hand, that we > won't support any proprietary systems like windows or DOS anymore, > but as for using DOS/Windows, Award and AMI BIOS do a good job, this is > not really needed. > People who need more features like netboot and a good console in their > BIOS very likely use Linux or any BSD flair. IMHO this is not the way to go, since many people still have Windows95 installed (because of the games), but would like OpenBIOS. I would leave an option that links a set of wrapper functions. > I'd suggest C, [...] Agree. I also have some further thoughts on this, but I'll post them tomorrow. > 3) Testing platforms Well, I've got a bunch of testing machines as well as old NE1000 cards here. If I find some time (and the manual and a NE/2 for my PS/2), I can do some testing here. Also, I think if someone just wants to run Linux and nothing else, a Linux kernel with the BIOS querying code commented out would do as well. So the main reason to use OpenBIOS should not be "It loads my Linux bigger/better/faster/more" but rather "I like to have a boot console" or "My company saves $200 on harddisks for each computer". Just my two cents. Also, the BIOS should be optimized towards minimal data storage space rather than speed. It won't harm speed that much, but the final OS has to live with all that stuff in RAM. CU Simon

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Continue Development
by Stefan Reinauer 01 Sep '98

01 Sep '98

Dear guys :-) As you might have noticed, there's not much traffic on this list at the moment. I'd like to start a bit of discussion right now to get things proceeding again. 1) Do we need the 16bit bios stuff in an OpenBIOS? I'd say a clear "NO" here. This does mean, on the other hand, that we won't support any proprietary systems like windows or DOS anymore, but as for using DOS/Windows, Award and AMI BIOS do a good job, this is not really needed. People who need more features like netboot and a good console in their BIOS very likely use Linux or any BSD flair. 2) Which programming language should be used? We sure will have to write some init code in assembler, which is OK, if it doesn't get too much. I think writing in a higher level language is much easier because a) more people can help the project and b) the code can easily be maintained. I'd suggest C, as C++ seems to be a bit bloated for this project. (As well as other languages) To give anyone the chance to help the project, I'd like to use the GNU Compiler GCC. Every Linux/BSD user has access to it and it's available for most other platforms, too(W32 i.e.) 3) Testing platforms I had a look at bochs some days ago (which now runs fine on my Alpha AXP without segfaults) though I am not sure whether it is really good enough for testing (I expect problems with the PnP and PCI init stuff) I am sure that it's possible to get some test mainboards so that no developer has to fear to destroy his computer. You might have a look at my devbios project, a flash bios device for Linux2.1. It can be found at http://www.freiburg.linux.de/~stepan/bios/ The OpenBIOS webpage can be found at http://www.freiburg.linux.de/OpenBIOS/ I'll try to get the archive mirrors of the earlier mailinglist discussions online this week, so stay tuned and don't hesitate starting a new discussion about the above themes (or anything else) Stefan -- .signature: No such file or directory

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This mailinglist.
by Stefan Reinauer 09 Jul '98

09 Jul '98

Dear OpenBIOS-Readers, well, I have to confess, that there's not much traffic on this list at the moment. This is mainly due to my spare free time. I guess I can do much more for this project in 2-3 weeks. We were duscussing the idea of porting OpenFirmware or the Linux/Alpha Loader MILO (which is a full bios) to Intel architecture to get some test enviroment to start with. Has anyone succeeded in booting a PC from the Bochs BIOS? ... You will read much more on this list, soon! Best regards, Stefan (List Maintainer) -- .signature: No such file or directory

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status of openbios
by Alex.Nemirovsky＠radisys.com 24 Jun '98

24 Jun '98

Hi All, I am interested in putting in some effort in getting OpenBIOS going. I am a BIOS engineer and see value in GPL'ed BIOS source code. How far is the development so far? What has been talked about? Thanks -Alex

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OpenBIOS and OpenBoot
by Fare Rideau 09 Jun '98

09 Jun '98

Dear OpenBIOS people, have you by chance considered the fact that there already exist a cross-platform IEEE standard for firmware? It's called Open Firmware, and allows boot code to run unmodified on a variety of platforms, based on a bytecode ANS FORTH interpreter: * Sun SPARCs (on which it first appeared -- try STOP A someday) * PowerPCs * ARM ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/me/mejohnsn/OFIntro.html http://playground.sun.com/pub/1275/ ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/p1275/ http://www.firmworks.com If you write something for PCs, it would be great if it reused this proven, standard, design. And if you need a FORTH core, there already exist lots of them, including PFE, GNU forth (gforth), and many others. http://www.forth.org/ ftp://ftp.forth.org/pub And of course, if you are to use this standard, you should contact the Open Firmware committee, to be in synch with whatever they have done or intend to do about the PC platform... Just my 2p worth. I'm not subscribed to this list in any way, I've just seen an announce on the linux-kernel(a)vger.rutgers.edu mailing list. Hence, if you want to reply me, use private e-mail. Good luck! ## Faré | VN: Ð£ng-Vû Bân | Join the TUNES project! http://www.tunes.org/ ## ## FR: François-René Rideau | TUNES is a Useful, Not Expedient System ## ## Reflection&Cybernethics | Project for a Free Reflective Computing System ## Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp.

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