[coreboot] Time for a new project

Jordan Crouse jordan.crouse at amd.com
Sun Apr 13 23:02:22 CEST 2008

> Sure.  I'm sneakily trying to show that SELF is really just the
> same as ELF in every way, only different.

Of course it is.  All formats follow the general concept of "copy this
here, copy that there, zero this and jump there".  There is nothing
new under the sun.  We would be silly to pretend otherwise.

The question is not that ELF cannot be made to work - coreboot has been
using it for much longer than I've been darkening this e-mail list.
No, the task is finding the best solution to the problem at hand.

Yes, SELF is very much similar to ELF - and it was specifically designed
to solve the main problems that were identified with ELF in this situation.
It may or may not have done so, only time will tell.  And certainly an
ELF can be made to work like we need it to - but is it worth the effort?

SELF was not designed to kill ELF, or COFF or anything else.  It was not
designed to be the next great standard in the world of computing.  It was
designed to solve the specific problems that coreboot and other interested
payload applications have.

Does it have flaws? Yes.  Will it have bugs? You bet.  The former we can
help solve right here in our discussions, and the later will happen
regardless of what we choose to do.

So, much as I like the debate, we need to wind ourselves down.  I don't think
anybody disagrees that the status-quo isn't the right solution.  There are
those that think ELF is the best alternative, and there are those who think
that it is not.  That is the first question that must be resolved - if then
the community thinks that ELF is not the best solution, then we can continue
with that line of thought and consider SELF or an alternative.

How best can we make a decision then?  A vote, perhaps?  I had wondered if
we could do a discussion and "vote" on the wiki in grand Wikipedian style,
but not everybody has an account, and I don't want to exclude anybody.  I
don't know if Stefan can turn on IP editing for individual pages or not.
if that doesn't work, I guess we'll try to do it via email.

Either way, I think we should reset the decks and allow representatives from
both sides make their arguments.  I nominate Segher for the "ELF is best"
and Ron for the "ELF is not best" arguments.   Remember, this is not over
the merits of SELF, but rather, if we should abandon ELF at all.


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