[coreboot] Removal of AGESA - to be or NOT to be? A story of G505S

ron minnich rminnich at gmail.com
Sat Nov 7 18:23:07 CET 2015


Can we calm down? Vladimir, your note came out after I -2'ed Alex's
proposal and we have made it clear that the proposal to "Remove" AGESA is
just that -- a proposal. It's not going to happen.

Thanks

ron

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:12 AM Vladimir <quickcracktime at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> > Did you know that G505s is unsuitable for libreboot due to the many
> > blobs it needs (VBIOS, SMU, IMC, make your pick) ?
> >
>
> That is why Francis suggested adding it to coreboot LTS Candidates list,
> not to Libreboot list - because, while Lenovo G505S seems to be a great
> coreboot LTS Candidate , it is still not ready for Libreboot. Which is a
> real pity, because there are no AMD laptops supported by Libreboot yet...
> In any case, Lenovo G505S matches all the requirements for it to be
> considered among the Coreboot LTS Candidates list :
>
> * RYF-certifiable - [V] check
> * Sturdy - [V] check
> * Long shelf life - [V] check
> * Cool factor - [V] check
>
> Actually it was you who came up with these requirements :
>
> http://www.coreboot.org/User_talk:MrNuke/LTS_Candidates#Requirements:
>
> Sorry, but it is a really bad idea to treat LTS Candidate as a second
> grade citizen
>
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> >> * Did you know that Compal will still be making LA-A091P laptop
> >> motherboard, the primary component of G505S, at least until the end of
> >> 2018 year?
> >
> > And this is based on what?
> >
>
> Lenovo is open to requests of motherboards (as well as requests for other
> internal components) coming from repair workshops, for a specific Lenovo
> laptop model - at least until the end of Service Lifetime of the last
> manufactured Lenovo laptop of this specific model. Lenovo stopped making
> G505S at the end of 2014 year, however they set a Service Lifetime of G505S
> model as 4 calendar years, which means that our repair workshop can request
> motherboards from Lenovo for this laptop model until the end of 2014 + 4
> years = end of 2018 year . Unless Lenovo would suddenly change their rules
> or would break up their partnership agreement with Compal, Compal will
> still be making motherboards for G505S until the end of 2018 year, based on
> requests from Lenovo which in turn based on requests from repair workshops.
> Although the minimal order quantity is 10pcs for us, we collaborate with
> smart people who have technical knowledge and could swap motherboards by
> themselves: we resell extra motherboards which we dont need for a small
> additional profit (+ sale tax), so any physical person could get them even
> at 1pcs quantities ;)
>
> Undoubtedly, Francis Rowe was 100% right while he was suggesting a Lenovo
> G505S to be added to Coreboot LTS Candidates list. This wonderful machine
> is still sold at many places and has a long life ahead
>
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> > I wrote most of the code to get it running in the first place.
> >
> >>
> >> * Did you know that Lenovo G505S is still widely available at some parts
> >> of the world? (e.g. in Russia, 50+ online shops are still selling it)
> >>
> >
> > Yeah, I wrote most of the code for that.
> >
>
> Thank you very much, dear friend, I really respect you for that :) But
> please keep in mind that coreboot is GNU GPL project, and you have
> transferred your G505S code to public domain at the very date of upload.
> Imagine, what if someone would suddenly decide to revert/branch off all his
> significant contributions to a Linux kernel? People simply would not let it
> happen! So I doubt that you can do anything you want with your important
> commits to coreboot repository, be it a branch or anything else as
> significant, without considering the opinion of other coreboot people
>
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> > I also happen to run one of the build servers. Here's a deal, you pay
> > for 60% of the running costs of the server (the amount of time agesa
> > builds take out of total time), and I'll stop whining. You owe me $1300
> > for the year 2015, pal.
> >
>
> First of all, it would be interesting to see a detailed report describing
> a process of how you came up with such a round value ( $1300 ) . Secondly,
> there are a lot of people who are using coreboot on AGESA hardware; and
> also, my main concern here lies with just 1 board. It is not that fair for
> you to ask $1300 from a single person , and because of my financial
> struggles I could invest $200 at max. If you are seriously estimating these
> running costs as $1300/year , you could set up a crowdfunding at Crowd
> Supply - Richard Stallman considers it a preferred platform for
> crowdfunding the open source software/hardware projects
>
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> > Geesh! Why don't you take over full maintainership of AGESA before
> > whining why people who worked on that code no longer want to support it?
> >
>
> Actually I have expressed my desire to participate in AGESA -> Native Init
> porting, but as I said before I can't do it all alone because I don't have
> enough experience. If you could show some good examples of AGESA -> Native
> Init porting, which could aid me in learning process, then we can do it
> together. Or I can be a build tester and constantly test your builds on my
> hardware (and maybe donate Money/Things to you to support your efforts)
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> branch it off to some abandoned branch that nobody would care about.
>
> >>
> >
> > You would obviously care about it, so that's a moot point.
> >
> > <sarcasm_alert> We either keep everything in a "master" branch, or it's
> dead. </sarcasm_alert>
> >
>
> In my earlier messages I already told what sense I am putting behind these
> words. Master branch will be receiving all the love: important bug fixes as
> well as great new features, which would be a part of code thats common for
> all the boards in a master branch. Meanwhile, nobody is going to constantly
> track check and copy all these commits to this separate branch, which means
> it would be abandoned.
>
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> > I agreed to leave these discussions behind. I don't know why people
> > _still_ keep bringing it up.
> >
>
> As you said before,
>
> >
> > Experience tells us that people are silent until their (broken) toys are
> taken away, and only then start crying.
> >
>
> I dont know what you have been expecting, but I am not going to be a part
> of this experience. I am not going to stay silent and watch how my precious
> toys are broken and are taken away. I am going to stand up for all the
> coreboot users/developers who are using coreboot on their G505S machine
>
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> PLEASE do NOT submit proposals that will negatively affect a support for
> >> alive boards, because
> >>
> >
> > If you want to treat logical separation as removal, that's on you
> >
>
> Your logical separation (regardless of how we call it) - it WILL
> negatively affect a support for alive boards! I cannot stress it enough:
>
> >
> > Master branch will be receiving all the love: important bug fixes as
> well as great new features, which would be a part of code thats common for
> all the boards in a master branch. Meanwhile, > nobody is going to
> constantly track check and copy all these commits to this separate branch,
> which means it would be abandoned.
> >
>
> >
> >>> On 11/07/2015 10:18 AM, Alex Gagniuc wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> such malevolent plans are a great insult to a bright spirit of coreboot
> !
>
> >>
> >
> > I'm insulted by your portrayal of me as aforementioned
> >
>
> Your recent proposals (in case if they would be accepted) will negatively
> affect many boards, including the alive boards - such as G505S, a coreboot
> LTS candidate. If you were expecting the praises of approval and kind words
> for such intentions - well, I am sorry to bust your expectations
>
> Best regards,
> Vladimir Shipovalov
>
> On 7 November 2015 at 12:18, Alex G. <mr.nuke.me at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/06/2015 02:11 AM, Vladimir wrote:
>> > * Did you know that Lenovo G505S is still widely available at some parts
>> > of the world? (e.g. in Russia, 50+ online shops are still selling it)
>>
>> Yeah, I wrote most of the code for that.
>>
>> > * Did you know that Francis Rowe, head Libreboot developer, has proposed
>> > the addition of G505S to Coreboot LTS Candidates list of laptops?
>>
>> Did you know that G505s is unsuitable for libreboot due to the many
>> blobs it needs (VBIOS, SMU, IMC, make your pick) ?
>>
>> > * Did you know that Compal will still be making LA-A091P laptop
>> > motherboard, the primary component of G505S, at least until the end of
>> > 2018 year?
>>
>> And this is based on what?
>>
>> > It is unbelievable that some people here want to take alive-and-kicking
>> > motherboard and 'remove it'
>>
>> I wrote most of the code to get it running in the first place.
>>
>> > or degrade it into a 'second class citizen' - by branching
>>
>> Geesh! Why don't you take over full maintainership of AGESA before
>> whining why people who worked on that code no longer want to support it?
>>
>> > it off to some abandoned branch that nobody would care about.
>>
>> You would obviously care about it, so that's a moot point.
>>
>> > Don't know which is worse...
>>
>> I agreed to leave these discussions behind. I don't know why people
>> _still_ keep bringing it up.
>>
>> >>>> Someone wrote:
>>
>> That was me
>>
>> >> I'm looking forward to seeing the draft of the removal plans. Maybe
>> >> removal is even better than branching
>>
>> <sarcasm_alert>
>> Yes. Because everything is black and white. We either keep everything in
>> a "master" branch, or it's dead.
>> </sarcasm_alert>
>>
>> > If Someone doesn't care about those boards which he doesn't own own, if
>> > Someone has no idea how to set up makefiles so that they will not make
>> > builds for boards that he doesn't care about, if Someone can't wait a
>> > few more extra minutes of compilation because he is in a 'great hurry':
>>
>> I also happen to run one of the build servers. Here's a deal, you pay
>> for 60% of the running costs of the server (the amount of time agesa
>> builds take out of total time), and I'll stop whining. You owe me $1300
>> for the year 2015, pal.
>>
>> > then he should start his 'Removal Quest' from old boards like Intel I945
>> > and AMD K8 - if nobody runs coreboot on them anymore.
>> > Or from his own board, if his own board is EOL and old...
>>
>> WOW! Guess what. You didn't git log AGESA boards. Hint: I'm "removing"
>> (your words, not mine) a lot of the code that I worked on.
>>
>> > PLEASE do NOT submit proposals that will negatively affect a support for
>> > alive boards, because
>>
>> If you want to treat logical separation as removal, that's on you. I'd
>> appreciate it if you stopped throwing baseless accusations around
>> because you feel that makes your argument stronger.
>>
>> > such malevolent plans
>>
>> Sure, I'm the enemy. I'm certain Stefan will love this one!
>>
>> > are a great insult
>>
>> I'm insulted by your portrayal of me as aforementioned. I've invested a
>> lot of my personal time and resources into coreboot, with nothing but
>> good intentions. I don't feel you truly have a grasp of all the facts
>> and headaches of doing coreboot on such a scale. So I'd really
>> appreciate you taking a step back and trying to get an overview every
>> once in a while.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> --
>> coreboot mailing list: coreboot at coreboot.org
>> http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
>>
>
> --
> coreboot mailing list: coreboot at coreboot.org
> http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot
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