Sorry to say IBMs initial responses to my queries we're not positive.  Even if I can get them to provide information, they may invoke our MNDA so I might not be able to share it.  I pushed back a little to see if it was just a knee jerk reaction or if they really feel like some of this info is truly confidential.

They of course provided the generic response of "I will also warn that flashing firmware not provided as a complete upgrade package from IBM will likely make your motherboard inoperable and unrecoverable. ".  Which might be believable for someone that doesn't know anything about computers or electrical engineering.  I've spent the better part of 2 decades working with computers and electronics and I know it's not true.  Don't get me wrong, if you do it "incorrectly" you can certainly break it, but if done correctly there is no reason to think that it would magically become inoperable.

I did take a closer look at some of their BIOS update tools and it looks like they do have some other firmware imbedded in with the BIOS updates, looks like some kind of riser card update, and something with the service processor.  Their documentation isn't real clear what some of the bits and pieces are actually updating.  But it is clear that they have multiple firmware devices being updated using a couple of different tools.  An spFwUpdt.com program to update the service processor, then they use awdflash.exe to apply two different bits of firmware one 1,024KB and the other 64KB.

I also notice the comment about the backup bios, from past experience with IBM I've seen quite a few of their systems come with backup bios capability.  It's handy if something goes wrong when flashing the firmware, if something goes wrong the system will automatically load off the backup version.  I thought I saw something a few years back that suggested they alternate which flash chip they update so that the version that is currently booting isn't overwritten when you flash a new version, just the one in the current backup.  Could be mistaken on that just something I remember, triggered by Stefan's comments....

FYI - Thanks for answering some questions and discussing the possibilities with me.


Jason Vannest


From: Stefan Tauner <stefan.tauner@student.tuwien.ac.at>
To: Jason_Vannest@abercrombie.com,
Cc: flashrom@flashrom.org, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <c-d.hailfinger.devel.2006@gmx.net>
Date: 07/16/2012 07:57 AM
Subject: Re: [flashrom] IBM SurePOS 700 4800-783 support




On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:17:19 -0400
Jason_Vannest@abercrombie.com wrote:

> If I'm reading the flashrom site correctly this is one of the flash chips
> that flashrom has support for already.  So that might be a plus.

Yes, the flash chip itself wont be a problem.

There is a service manual for the POS located at
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/retail/pubs/hw/4800_surepos700/btd5_4800-723-743-783_hsg_mst.pdf
and it mentions a "backup bios" in the service processor section. That
could complicate things further (or help you out if something fails if
you are very lucky, but usually it make things worse for us).
The remainder of the document is not very helpful (targeted at users
not developers).

> > I'd venture a guess that we can do this before IBM can
> > even give you a quote.
>
> What kind of information would you want?  I have pretty solid connections
> with IBM I may be able to get questions answered about this.

A schematic that contains the data path between the southbridge and the
flash chip as well as its relation to the Renesas IC would indicate if we
have to take care about the Renesas at all. Any additional information
regarding the BIOS upgrade process (e.g. if the version of the Renesas'
firmware has to be kept in sync with the BIOS) or the service
processor's interaction with the flash chip would be very welcome too.

Above all we need to work on the support for the VIA chipset (VT8251),
but IBM won't be able to help us with that. I have no news regarding
that.
--
Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner