Question regarding instructions...

[Nathanael Noblet]

      Hello,
	I've gone over the instructions included on the website for the sis 
630. I have a few questions on how I can do this if I am not using a 
sis 630 winfast mobo. I have a SBC sis530 based machine. I realize that 
this board is not supported but I also have the datasheet and don't 
mind the work that would be involved in adding support. Before I start 
on that though here are my question. It talks about replacing the bios 
chip with a DoC. I've looked at this board and what seems to me to be 
the bios chip is not the same shape as a DoC it is an AWARD and it is 
square. There is a DoC on the machine and it is rectangular. So there 
is no way to replace one with the other. Does that make this 
impossible? Or is it possible to flash the AWARD BIOS with the 
linuxbios code? Or, and I highly doubt this, since there is a DoC on 
the board can I simply remove the BIOS chip...

Any suggestions?

-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/

[steven james]

      Greetings,

It won't be possable to just remove the flash. However, you can flash
LinuxBIOS itself onto the plcc (square) flash, and have it load the
payload (kernel) from the DoC. It should be mostly a matter of determining
where the DOC is mapped intp memory.

G'day,
sjames



On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:

  Hello,
 	I've gone over the instructions included on the website for the sis 
 630. I have a few questions on how I can do this if I am not using a 
 sis 630 winfast mobo. I have a SBC sis530 based machine. I realize that 
 this board is not supported but I also have the datasheet and don't 
 mind the work that would be involved in adding support. Before I start 
 on that though here are my question. It talks about replacing the bios 
 chip with a DoC. I've looked at this board and what seems to me to be 
 the bios chip is not the same shape as a DoC it is an AWARD and it is 
 square. There is a DoC on the machine and it is rectangular. So there 
 is no way to replace one with the other. Does that make this 
 impossible? Or is it possible to flash the AWARD BIOS with the 
 linuxbios code? Or, and I highly doubt this, since there is a DoC on 
 the board can I simply remove the BIOS chip...
 
 Any suggestions?
 
-- 
-------------------------steven james, director of research, linux labs
... ........ ..... ....                     230 peachtree st nw ste 701
the original linux labs                             atlanta.ga.us 30303
      -since 1995                              http://www.linuxlabs.com
                                   office 404.577.7747 fax [phone]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Nathanael Noblet]

      On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 01:54 PM, steven james wrote:

  Greetings,

 It won't be possable to just remove the flash. However, you can flash
 LinuxBIOS itself onto the plcc (square) flash, and have it load the
 payload (kernel) from the DoC. It should be mostly a matter of 
 determining
 where the DOC is mapped intp memory.
Well that sounds promising. Although, if I don't get the linuxBIOS code 
just right, my machine is dead no? because I won't be able to get to a 
bootable floppy to restore the bios, and I cannot replace the bios chip 
with a known good one right?

-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/

[steven james]

      Greetings,

If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC flash
chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a
spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.

You will need either a non-conductive chip extractor. Boot under the
normal BIOS, pull it, and insert the spare. Program, reboot. If it fails,
re-insert the original and try again. Most of the boards in the project
were developed that way.

G'day,
sjames



On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:

  
 On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 01:54 PM, steven james wrote:
 
  Greetings,

 It won't be possable to just remove the flash. However, you can flash
 LinuxBIOS itself onto the plcc (square) flash, and have it load the
 payload (kernel) from the DoC. It should be mostly a matter of 
 determining
 where the DOC is mapped intp memory.
 
 Well that sounds promising. Although, if I don't get the linuxBIOS code 
 just right, my machine is dead no? because I won't be able to get to a 
 bootable floppy to restore the bios, and I cannot replace the bios chip 
 with a known good one right?
 
-- 
-------------------------steven james, director of research, linux labs
... ........ ..... ....                     230 peachtree st nw ste 701
the original linux labs                             atlanta.ga.us 30303
      -since 1995                              http://www.linuxlabs.com
                                   office 404.577.7747 fax [phone]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ronald G. Minnich]

      On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, steven james wrote:

  You will need either a non-conductive chip extractor.
Boot under the
 normal BIOS, pull it, and insert the spare. Program, reboot. If it fails,
 re-insert the original and try again. Most of the boards in the project
 were developed that way.
note that most Radio Shack and Frye's sell these extractors.

ron

[Nathanael Noblet]

      On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 05:59 PM, steven james wrote:

  Greetings,

 If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC 
 flash
 chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a
 spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.
Well I'd like to know if this is a socket. It doesn't seem like it to 
me... but I imagine with the right tool I would be removable. I have 
taken a picture with a web camera. It is a bad picture but I think it 
is clear enough that someone familiar with BIOS's would recognize it. 
So if you would be so kind as to check that would be great. the address 
is http://www.gnat.ca/photos/SBC.jpg . Let me know if it looks like a 
removable and I'll start getting the code up and ready to try. Just as 
a little description, the square piece in the middle is the AWARD PNP 
chip and directly below it is the DiscOnChip 2000.


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/


-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/

[Gregg C Levine]

      Hello from Gregg C Levine
You are thinking of that square gizmo, with the blurry label on it? And
above the Disk On Chip device? It might be, I've seen AWARD BIOS units
jammed into PLCC type flash devices before, but its rather rare. That
because EPROM, both flash, and the others exist in many styles. If it's
wearing that label, then you've found it. See if you can identify the
chip type as well, so you can replace it with a matching device. By the
way, what was stored on the DOC, to begin with? And of course my
favorite question of the week, "Where did you get this unit from?".
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



  -----Original Message-----
 From: linuxbios-admin(a)clustermatic.org [mailto:linuxbios-
 admin(a)clustermatic.org] On Behalf Of Nathanael Noblet
 Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 12:52 AM
 To: steven james
 Cc: linuxbios(a)clustermatic.org
 Subject: Re: Question regarding instructions...
 
 
 On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 05:59 PM, steven james wrote:
 
 > Greetings,
 >
 > If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC
 > flash
 > chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use
a
  spare chip for
LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.
 
 Well I'd like to know if this is a socket. It doesn't seem like it to
 me... but I imagine with the right tool I would be removable. I have
 taken a picture with a web camera. It is a bad picture but I think it
 is clear enough that someone familiar with BIOS's would recognize it.
 So if you would be so kind as to check that would be great. the
address
  is http://www.gnat.ca/photos/SBC.jpg . Let me know if
it looks like a
 removable and I'll start getting the code up and ready to try. Just as
 a little description, the square piece in the middle is the AWARD PNP
 chip and directly below it is the DiscOnChip 2000.
 
 
 --
 Nathanael Noblet
 Gnat Solutions
 4604 Monterey Ave NW
 Calgary, AB
 T3B 5K4
 
 T/F 403.288.5360
 C 403.809.5368
 
 http://www.gnat.ca/
 
 
 --
 Nathanael Noblet
 Gnat Solutions
 4604 Monterey Ave NW
 Calgary, AB
 T3B 5K4
 
 T/F 403.288.5360
 C 403.809.5368
 
 http://www.gnat.ca/
 
 _______________________________________________
 Linuxbios mailing list
 Linuxbios(a)clustermatic.org
 http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[Nathanael Noblet]

      On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 11:07 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:

  Hello from Gregg C Levine
 You are thinking of that square gizmo, with the blurry label on it? And
 above the Disk On Chip device? It might be, I've seen AWARD BIOS units
 jammed into PLCC type flash devices before, but its rather rare.
That is the device. It says on it:
AWARD
copy 1998
PCI/PNP 586
230085332

I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS chip. It is in a 
square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and 
bottom, 7 on the left and right.

Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can 
point me in the right direction...

   That
 because EPROM, both flash, and the others exist in many styles. If it's
 wearing that label, then you've found it. See if you can identify the
 chip type as well, so you can replace it with a matching device. By the
 way, what was stored on the DOC, to begin with?
I think the DoC originally had just a basic DOS install (sys C:) type 
thing. The business I purchased it from wanted to show that the DoC was 
functional.

  And of course my
 favorite question of the week, "Where did you get this unit from?".
A local place here in Calgary. The part is a PIA-671, PMMX 233 with 
pretty much everything you can imagine. CRT/flat panel, USB, key mouse, 
3d AGP card,serial parallel etc... Manufacturer is Arbor, based in 
California I think.

-- 
Nathanael Noblet
Gnat Solutions
4604 Monterey Ave NW
Calgary, AB
T3B 5K4

T/F 403.288.5360
C 403.809.5368

http://www.gnat.ca/

[Gregg C Levine]

      Hello again from Gregg C Levine
A PLCC device in simple terms is a square device, which contains pretty
much the same thing, as the DIP packaged variant, sometimes there are a
few extra pins on it. In that case, unless otherwise noted on that data
sheet, they'd be Not Connected and noted as such. Typically this happens
in the Intel market, that is parts made by them, or a second source from
them, as with the processor market. For example if the part is a 27C512
EPROM, then its pinouts would be the same on both. Of course since you
are certain that it is a flash device, as is ninety-percent of all BIOS
devices out there, it would be a 28512 for example, if that part number
exists. I'm just citing examples here, your own efforts such as using
Google will be much more rewarding. I also urge you to obtain the data
sheets for everything on that board, that is not wearing custom part
numbers. If you really want to know, it will make this port that much
more easier. Ron, if you are reading this, that is a good suggestion to
insert into the revised FAQ, that will emerge RSN. I trust you will find
this information rewarding, and exactly what you are in need of.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



  -----Original Message-----
 From: Nathanael Noblet [mailto:[e-mail]]
 Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:41 AM
 To: gregg(a)levine.name
 Cc: Linuxbios; 'steven james'
 Subject: Re: Question regarding instructions...
 
 
 On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 11:07 PM, Gregg C Levine wrote:
 
 > Hello from Gregg C Levine
 > You are thinking of that square gizmo, with the blurry label on it?
And
  > above the Disk On Chip device? It might be,
I've seen AWARD BIOS
units
  jammed into
PLCC type flash devices before, but its rather rare.
 
 That is the device. It says on it:
 AWARD
 copy 1998
 PCI/PNP 586
 230085332
 
 I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS chip. It is in a
 square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and
 bottom, 7 on the left and right.
 
 Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can
 point me in the right direction...
 
 >  That
 > because EPROM, both flash, and the others exist in many styles. If
it's
  > wearing that label, then you've found it. See
if you can identify
the
  > chip type as well, so you can replace it with a
matching device. By
the
  way, what was
stored on the DOC, to begin with?
 
 I think the DoC originally had just a basic DOS install (sys C:) type
 thing. The business I purchased it from wanted to show that the DoC
was
  functional.
 
  And of course my
 favorite question of the week, "Where did you get this unit from?".
 
 A local place here in Calgary. The part is a PIA-671, PMMX 233 with
 pretty much everything you can imagine. CRT/flat panel, USB, key
mouse,
  3d AGP card,serial parallel etc... Manufacturer is
Arbor, based in
 California I think.
 
 --
 Nathanael Noblet
 Gnat Solutions
 4604 Monterey Ave NW
 Calgary, AB
 T3B 5K4
 
 T/F 403.288.5360
 C 403.809.5368
 
 http://www.gnat.ca/

[ollie lho]

      On Fri, 2002-11-29 at 14:41, Nathanael Noblet wrote:
  
 
 That is the device. It says on it:
 AWARD
 copy 1998
 PCI/PNP 586
 230085332
You should remove the label on the chip and you can see the real
part number of it. It has nothing with any keywords like "AWARD".

  I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS
chip. It is in a 
 square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and 
 bottom, 7 on the left and right.
 
 Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can 
 point me in the right direction...
PLCC means Plastic J-Leaded Chip Carrier, which is a way to package
IC chips. The pins (or legs ??) look like the character 'J' from side.

Can you boot your board by the BIOS with Linux on IDE HD ??

Ollie

[Ronald G. Minnich]

      On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:

  I really don't think it is anything but the BIOS
chip. It is in a 
 square "socket" ( I use the term loosely) with 9 pins on the top and 
 bottom, 7 on the left and right.
 
 Oh and what is a PLCC flash device?? I'll google but perhaps you can 
 point me in the right direction...
that's a plcc flash device. You've found it.

ron

[steven james]

      Greetings,

Yep, that's a standard PLCC in a socket. Just as a quick tip, they are
often quite tight. I like to extract and replace 4-5 times with power off
on a new board just to 'break it in' so things go easy when hot swapping
later.

One further caution, in spite of being keyed, it is fairly easy to insert
the chip backwards. Be sure to check it visually. If the chip heats up (it
will if backwards), pull power quickly.

G'day,
sjames



On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Nathanael Noblet wrote:

  
 On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 05:59 PM, steven james wrote:
 
  Greetings,

 If the flash is in a socket, no problem. Believe it or not, the PLCC 
 flash
 chips can be hot swapped (power ON). So, the best approach is to use a
 spare chip for LinuxBIOS, and keep the original as a rescue chip.
 
 Well I'd like to know if this is a socket. It doesn't seem like it to 
 me... but I imagine with the right tool I would be removable. I have 
 taken a picture with a web camera. It is a bad picture but I think it 
 is clear enough that someone familiar with BIOS's would recognize it. 
 So if you would be so kind as to check that would be great. the address 
 is http://www.gnat.ca/photos/SBC.jpg . Let me know if it looks like a 
 removable and I'll start getting the code up and ready to try. Just as 
 a little description, the square piece in the middle is the AWARD PNP 
 chip and directly below it is the DiscOnChip 2000.
 
 
-- 
-------------------------steven james, director of research, linux labs
... ........ ..... ....                     230 peachtree st nw ste 701
the original linux labs                             atlanta.ga.us 30303
      -since 1995                              http://www.linuxlabs.com
                                   office 404.577.7747 fax [phone]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------