[Fwd: Re: DiskOnChip Questions]

[Michael Robinson]

---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---

So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?

Thanks,
Michael Robinson
[e-mail]
www.fuzzymuzzle.com

Larry Matter wrote:
> > what
> > does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > flash chip can't?
>
> More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
>
> The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > My final
> > question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
>
> So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
>
> And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
>
> One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
>
> Larry

[Hendricks David W.]

Sounds about right. Put your kernel on an IDE device with a filesystem 
(FILO supports EXT2/3, Reiser, XFS, etc) and use FILO as your LinuxBIOS 
payload (payload /where/filo/is/located/filo.elf in your 
targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file). You also need to tell FILO where 
yoru kernel is located and give it any options you want passed to the 
kernel in the "AUTOBOOT_FILE" line, which should look something like 
a LILO prompt: hda1:/kernel root/dev/hda3 console=ttyS0,115200

Boot image generally implies kernel.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> ---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
> adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---
>
> So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
> image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
> do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
> definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Robinson
> [e-mail]
> www.fuzzymuzzle.com
>
> Larry Matter wrote:
> > > what
> > > does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > > flash chip can't?
> >
> > More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > > My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > > MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > > DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > > adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
> >
> > The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> > adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > > My final
> > > question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
> >
> > So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> > big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> > other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
> >
> > And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> > can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
> >
> > One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
> >
> > Larry
>
> Linuxbios mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[Michael Robinson]

So in my case FILO is booting the actual Linux kernel that you will be 
using when you perform tasks on the computer?  So if you were using a 
DiskOnChip your Linux distribution kernel would be on the actual 
DiskOnChip?  I was under the impression that the LinuxBIOS kernel was on 
the DiskOnChip and the distribution kernel was on a hard drive.  Could 
you please clarify.

Thanks,
Michael Robinson
[e-mail]
www.fuzzymuzzle.com

Hendricks David W. wrote:
> Sounds about right. Put your kernel on an IDE device with a filesystem 
> (FILO supports EXT2/3, Reiser, XFS, etc) and use FILO as your LinuxBIOS 
> payload (payload /where/filo/is/located/filo.elf in your 
> targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file). You also need to tell FILO where 
> yoru kernel is located and give it any options you want passed to the 
> kernel in the "AUTOBOOT_FILE" line, which should look something like 
> a LILO prompt: hda1:/kernel root/dev/hda3 console=ttyS0,115200
>
> Boot image generally implies kernel.
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > ---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
> > adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---
> >
> > So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
> > image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
> > do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
> > definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Michael Robinson
> > [e-mail]
> > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> >
> > Larry Matter wrote:
> > > > what
> > > > does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > > > flash chip can't?
> > >
> > > More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > > > My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > > > MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > > > DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > > > adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
> > >
> > > The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> > > adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > > > My final
> > > > question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
> > >
> > > So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> > > big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> > > other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
> > >
> > > And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> > > can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
> > >
> > > One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
> > >
> > > Larry
> >
> > Linuxbios mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[Hendricks David W.]

You can do it that way, too. The method suggested earlier was to use the 
distribution kernel on the compact flash device. If you want a stripped 
kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as 
well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example). 
You could then use Kexec or Two Kernel Monte (kmonte) to boot 
another kernel.

So I guess what we need to figure out is how you want to boot your kernel. 
Do you want it to be booted off an IDE device or the same flash part 
alongside your BIOS?

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> So in my case FILO is booting the actual Linux kernel that you will be 
> using when you perform tasks on the computer?  So if you were using a 
> DiskOnChip your Linux distribution kernel would be on the actual 
> DiskOnChip?  I was under the impression that the LinuxBIOS kernel was on 
> the DiskOnChip and the distribution kernel was on a hard drive.  Could 
> you please clarify.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Robinson
> [e-mail]
> www.fuzzymuzzle.com
>
> Hendricks David W. wrote:
> > Sounds about right. Put your kernel on an IDE device with a filesystem 
> > (FILO supports EXT2/3, Reiser, XFS, etc) and use FILO as your LinuxBIOS 
> > payload (payload /where/filo/is/located/filo.elf in your 
> > targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file). You also need to tell FILO where 
> > yoru kernel is located and give it any options you want passed to the 
> > kernel in the "AUTOBOOT_FILE" line, which should look something like 
> > a LILO prompt: hda1:/kernel root/dev/hda3 console=ttyS0,115200
> >
> > Boot image generally implies kernel.
> >
> > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > > ---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
> > > adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---
> > >
> > > So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
> > > image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
> > > do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
> > > definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Michael Robinson
> > > [e-mail]
> > > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> > >
> > > Larry Matter wrote:
> > > > > what
> > > > > does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > > > > flash chip can't?
> > > >
> > > > More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > > > > My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > > > > MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > > > > DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > > > > adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
> > > >
> > > > The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> > > > adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > > > > My final
> > > > > question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
> > > >
> > > > So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> > > > big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> > > > other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
> > > >
> > > > And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> > > > can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
> > > >
> > > > One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > >
> > > Linuxbios mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[Michael Robinson]

David,

LinuxBIOS has its own kernel correct?  Or is LinuxBIOS not really a 
Linux kernel, but boots a Linux kernel that can be stored on the 
DiskOnChip or HDD?  I just want to verify how it works because I've 
heard so many references to multiple kernels that I'm not sure exactly 
how the whole process works.  In response to your last question I'd like 
to boot my distro off of hard disk if I'm thinking correctly.

Thanks,
Michael Robinson
[e-mail]
www.fuzzymuzzle.com

Hendricks David W. wrote:
> You can do it that way, too. The method suggested earlier was to use the 
> distribution kernel on the compact flash device. If you want a stripped 
> kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as 
> well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example). 
> You could then use Kexec or Two Kernel Monte (kmonte) to boot 
> another kernel.
>
> So I guess what we need to figure out is how you want to boot your kernel. 
> Do you want it to be booted off an IDE device or the same flash part 
> alongside your BIOS?
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > So in my case FILO is booting the actual Linux kernel that you will be 
> > using when you perform tasks on the computer?  So if you were using a 
> > DiskOnChip your Linux distribution kernel would be on the actual 
> > DiskOnChip?  I was under the impression that the LinuxBIOS kernel was on 
> > the DiskOnChip and the distribution kernel was on a hard drive.  Could 
> > you please clarify.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Michael Robinson
> > [e-mail]
> > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> >
> > Hendricks David W. wrote:
> > > Sounds about right. Put your kernel on an IDE device with a filesystem 
> > > (FILO supports EXT2/3, Reiser, XFS, etc) and use FILO as your LinuxBIOS 
> > > payload (payload /where/filo/is/located/filo.elf in your 
> > > targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file). You also need to tell FILO where 
> > > yoru kernel is located and give it any options you want passed to the 
> > > kernel in the "AUTOBOOT_FILE" line, which should look something like 
> > > a LILO prompt: hda1:/kernel root/dev/hda3 console=ttyS0,115200
> > >
> > > Boot image generally implies kernel.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > > > ---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
> > > > adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---
> > > >
> > > > So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
> > > > image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
> > > > do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
> > > > definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Michael Robinson
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> > > >
> > > > Larry Matter wrote:
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > > > > > flash chip can't?
> > > > >
> > > > > More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > > > > > My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > > > > > MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > > > > > DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > > > > > adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
> > > > >
> > > > > The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> > > > > adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > > > > > My final
> > > > > > question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
> > > > >
> > > > > So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> > > > > big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> > > > > other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> > > > > can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
> > > > >
> > > > > One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > > Linuxbios mailing list
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[Hendricks David W.]

LinuxBIOS does not have its own kernel. The way it usually works is either 
LinuxBIOS boots a kernel from flash or LinuxBIOS boots a payload (eg FILO 
or Etherboot) which then boots a kernel. LinuxBIOS is its own entity in 
either case.

If you have an IDE hard disk, you can use LinuxBIOS and FILO to boot your 
kernel off that hard disk and its existing filesystem as you would with 
LILO or GRUB. FILO can be downloaded here: 
http://te.to/~ts1/filo/ .

Basically this is what I would do with your hardware:
1. Download FILO, edit the Config file.
    Change the AUTOBOOT_FILE line to let FILO know where your kernel 
is located and also pass any extra kernel parameters. Example:
hda2:/boot/x86_64 root=/dev/hda2 console=ttyS0,115200 console=tty0 vga=792 
video=atyfb:mode:1024x768
    Look under "# Filesystems" and enable whichever filesystem(s) you 
require to read your kernel.
    Run "make" to generate filo.elf

2. Open your freebios2/targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file and edit the 
"payload" lines. There should be two of them, one under romimage "normal" 
and one under romimage "fallback". Change them to point to filo.elf. For 
example:
    payload /usr/src/filo-0.4.2/filo.elf

3. cd to freebios2/targets and run "./buildtarget via/epia-m/"
4. cd to via/epia-m/epia-m and run "make"
5. If all goes well, you should now have linuxbios.rom. Burn it on a spare 
flash part (You can try the flash_rom utility in 
freebios2/util/flash_and_burn), hook up a serial connection to another 
computer, power cycle and see what happens.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> David,
>
> LinuxBIOS has its own kernel correct?  Or is LinuxBIOS not really a 
> Linux kernel, but boots a Linux kernel that can be stored on the 
> DiskOnChip or HDD?  I just want to verify how it works because I've 
> heard so many references to multiple kernels that I'm not sure exactly 
> how the whole process works.  In response to your last question I'd like 
> to boot my distro off of hard disk if I'm thinking correctly.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Robinson
> [e-mail]
> www.fuzzymuzzle.com
>
> Hendricks David W. wrote:
> > You can do it that way, too. The method suggested earlier was to use the 
> > distribution kernel on the compact flash device. If you want a stripped 
> > kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as 
> > well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example). 
> > You could then use Kexec or Two Kernel Monte (kmonte) to boot 
> > another kernel.
> >
> > So I guess what we need to figure out is how you want to boot your kernel. 
> > Do you want it to be booted off an IDE device or the same flash part 
> > alongside your BIOS?
> >
> > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > > So in my case FILO is booting the actual Linux kernel that you will be 
> > > using when you perform tasks on the computer?  So if you were using a 
> > > DiskOnChip your Linux distribution kernel would be on the actual 
> > > DiskOnChip?  I was under the impression that the LinuxBIOS kernel was on 
> > > the DiskOnChip and the distribution kernel was on a hard drive.  Could 
> > > you please clarify.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Michael Robinson
> > > [e-mail]
> > > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> > >
> > > Hendricks David W. wrote:
> > > > Sounds about right. Put your kernel on an IDE device with a filesystem 
> > > > (FILO supports EXT2/3, Reiser, XFS, etc) and use FILO as your LinuxBIOS 
> > > > payload (payload /where/filo/is/located/filo.elf in your 
> > > > targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file). You also need to tell FILO where 
> > > > yoru kernel is located and give it any options you want passed to the 
> > > > kernel in the "AUTOBOOT_FILE" line, which should look something like 
> > > > a LILO prompt: hda1:/kernel root/dev/hda3 console=ttyS0,115200
> > > >
> > > > Boot image generally implies kernel.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > > > > ---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
> > > > > adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---
> > > > >
> > > > > So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
> > > > > image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
> > > > > do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
> > > > > definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Michael Robinson
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry Matter wrote:
> > > > > > >what
> > > > > > >does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > > > > > >flash chip can't?
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >       
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >            
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > > > > > >MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > > > > > >DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > > > > > >adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >       
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >            
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> > > > > > adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >My final
> > > > > > >question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >       
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >            
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> > > > > > big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> > > > > > other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> > > > > > can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > > Linuxbios mailing list
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[ron minnich]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Hendricks David W. wrote:
> LinuxBIOS does not have its own kernel. The way it usually works is either 
> LinuxBIOS boots a kernel from flash or LinuxBIOS boots a payload (eg FILO 
> or Etherboot) which then boots a kernel. LinuxBIOS is its own entity in 
> either case.

I should jump in here and mention that the intent of the project, when we 
started, was: Linux == BIOS, i.e. LinuxBIOS.

The shrinking flash parts changed our plans but not the name.

I would still prefer, overall, to have kept linux in the flash as the real 
BIOS, but that is impossible on many platforms; hence the 'payload' 
concept.

ron

[Michael Robinson]

Sounds great, thanks for the help.  I have one other question though, 
LinuxBIOS will fit on a 4Mbit flash chip if my root filesystem in on a 
hard drive, correct?  Also, the specs for the VIA EPIA MII say the BIOS 
is 2/4Mbit, does this mean I can use either size or does it mean that it 
only works with one of these sizes?

Thanks,
Michael Robinson
[e-mail]
www.fuzzymuzzle.com

Hendricks David W. wrote:
> LinuxBIOS does not have its own kernel. The way it usually works is either 
> LinuxBIOS boots a kernel from flash or LinuxBIOS boots a payload (eg FILO 
> or Etherboot) which then boots a kernel. LinuxBIOS is its own entity in 
> either case.
>
> If you have an IDE hard disk, you can use LinuxBIOS and FILO to boot your 
> kernel off that hard disk and its existing filesystem as you would with 
> LILO or GRUB. FILO can be downloaded here: 
> http://te.to/~ts1/filo/ .
>
> Basically this is what I would do with your hardware:
> Download FILO, edit the Config file.
> Change the AUTOBOOT_FILE line to let FILO know where your kernel
>
> is located and also pass any extra kernel parameters. Example:
> hda2:/boot/x86_64 root=/dev/hda2 console=ttyS0,115200 console=tty0 vga=792 
> video=atyfb:mode:1024x768
>    Look under "# Filesystems" and enable whichever filesystem(s) you 
> require to read your kernel.
>    Run "make" to generate filo.elf
> Open your freebios2/targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file and edit the
>
> "payload" lines. There should be two of them, one under romimage "normal" 
> and one under romimage "fallback". Change them to point to filo.elf. For 
> example:
>    payload /usr/src/filo-0.4.2/filo.elf
> cd to freebios2/targets and run "./buildtarget via/epia-m/"
> cd to via/epia-m/epia-m and run "make"
> If all goes well, you should now have linuxbios.rom. Burn it on a spare
>
> flash part (You can try the flash_rom utility in 
> freebios2/util/flash_and_burn), hook up a serial connection to another 
> computer, power cycle and see what happens.
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > LinuxBIOS has its own kernel correct?  Or is LinuxBIOS not really a 
> > Linux kernel, but boots a Linux kernel that can be stored on the 
> > DiskOnChip or HDD?  I just want to verify how it works because I've 
> > heard so many references to multiple kernels that I'm not sure exactly 
> > how the whole process works.  In response to your last question I'd like 
> > to boot my distro off of hard disk if I'm thinking correctly.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Michael Robinson
> > [e-mail]
> > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> >
> > Hendricks David W. wrote:
> > > You can do it that way, too. The method suggested earlier was to use the 
> > > distribution kernel on the compact flash device. If you want a stripped 
> > > kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as 
> > > well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example). 
> > > You could then use Kexec or Two Kernel Monte (kmonte) to boot 
> > > another kernel.
> > >
> > > So I guess what we need to figure out is how you want to boot your kernel. 
> > > Do you want it to be booted off an IDE device or the same flash part 
> > > alongside your BIOS?
> > >
> > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > > > So in my case FILO is booting the actual Linux kernel that you will be 
> > > > using when you perform tasks on the computer?  So if you were using a 
> > > > DiskOnChip your Linux distribution kernel would be on the actual 
> > > > DiskOnChip?  I was under the impression that the LinuxBIOS kernel was on 
> > > > the DiskOnChip and the distribution kernel was on a hard drive.  Could 
> > > > you please clarify.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Michael Robinson
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> > > >
> > > > Hendricks David W. wrote:
> > > > > Sounds about right. Put your kernel on an IDE device with a filesystem 
> > > > > (FILO supports EXT2/3, Reiser, XFS, etc) and use FILO as your LinuxBIOS 
> > > > > payload (payload /where/filo/is/located/filo.elf in your 
> > > > > targets/via/epia-m/Config.lb file). You also need to tell FILO where 
> > > > > yoru kernel is located and give it any options you want passed to the 
> > > > > kernel in the "AUTOBOOT_FILE" line, which should look something like 
> > > > > a LILO prompt: hda1:/kernel root/dev/hda3 console=ttyS0,115200
> > > > >
> > > > > Boot image generally implies kernel.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > ---The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE 
> > > > > > adapter. Using FILO you can boot from the CF.---
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I'd flash FILO to the BIOS, then it would load the LinuxBIOS kernel 
> > > > > > image, and then the kernel image would do whatever you want LinuxBIOS to 
> > > > > > do, right? Or am I wrong... It says FILO loads a "boot image", whats the 
> > > > > > definition of a "boot image", is it just the kernel?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Michael Robinson
> > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > www.fuzzymuzzle.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry Matter wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>what
> > > > > > >>does the DiskOnChip provide to the LinuxBIOs project that the standard
> > > > > > >>flash chip can't?
> > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>      
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>           
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>                
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >More than 2 megabits of storage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >              
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>My second is that I'm going to be using the VIA EPIA
> > > > > > >>MII motherboard which has a PLCC BIOS, as far as I can tell PLCC
> > > > > > >>DiskOnChips aren't very readily available.  Should I use a DIP to PLCC
> > > > > > >>adapter; how did the other people who used this board do it?
> > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>      
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>           
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>                
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >The trend seems to be NOT to use DiskOnChip but rather a CF <> IDE
> > > > > > >adapter.  Using FILO you can boot from the CF.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >              
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>My final
> > > > > > >>question is how do I pick the size of the DiskOnChip.
> > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>      
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>           
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>                
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >So if you're going to go for the CF <> IDE, then it just needs to be as
> > > > > > >big as your root partition (or even just an initrd).   There are many
> > > > > > >other alternatives depending on network, disk, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >And if you've been following this list for a bit you'll know that you
> > > > > > >can't (yet) boot off of the CF adapter on the EPIA MII.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >One last word of advice, get a bios savior.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Larry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >         
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >              
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Linuxbios mailing list
> > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

[Hendricks David W.]

LinuxBIOS is actually very small (64KB), it will fit easily on a 256KB 
flash part. However, you must be careful about the size of your part. If 
you have a 256KB flash part, then you need to adjust the ROM_SIZE in 
your Config.lb file accordingly:
option ROM_SIZE=256*1024
If you're on a 512KB flash part, then it should be this:
option ROM_SIZE=512*1024

Also, on a 512KB flash part, you can concatinate a 256KB linuxbios.rom 
twice into another file and burn that instead, so long as the file size 
is 512KB.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Michael Robinson wrote:
> Sounds great, thanks for the help.  I have one other question though, 
> LinuxBIOS will fit on a 4Mbit flash chip if my root filesystem in on a 
> hard drive, correct?  Also, the specs for the VIA EPIA MII say the BIOS 
> is 2/4Mbit, does this mean I can use either size or does it mean that it 
> only works with one of these sizes?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Robinson
> [e-mail]
> www.fuzzymuzzle.com

[Larry Matter]

> If you want a stripped
> kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as
> well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example).

Last time I looked (or "googled" rather) it was not possible to squeeze a
kernel (plus linuxBios) into a 2 megabit bios rom.  Has this changed or
are you talking about mobos with bigger roms?

Thanks,
Larry

[ron minnich]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Larry Matter wrote:
> Last time I looked (or "googled" rather) it was not possible to squeeze
> a kernel (plus linuxBios) into a 2 megabit bios rom.  Has this changed
> or are you talking about mobos with bigger roms?

bigger roms.

ron

[Hendricks David W.]

My mistake, I'm thinking of the 8Mb ROMs I use for other mainboards. Can 
an EPIA take a SST49LF080? Those aren't too expensive, and you can fit a 
decent-sized 2.6 kernel alongside LinuxBIOS on one.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Larry Matter wrote:
> > If you want a stripped
> > kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as
> > well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example).
>
> Last time I looked (or "googled" rather) it was not possible to squeeze a
> kernel (plus linuxBios) into a 2 megabit bios rom.  Has this changed or
> are you talking about mobos with bigger roms?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry

[Michael Robinson]

From what I've read on Via's site the EPIAs use a 2/4Mbit ROM, what is 
the limiting factor as to how big the ROM can be?

Michael Robinson
[e-mail]
www.fuzzymuzzle.com

Hendricks David W. wrote:
> My mistake, I'm thinking of the 8Mb ROMs I use for other mainboards. Can 
> an EPIA take a SST49LF080? Those aren't too expensive, and you can fit a 
> decent-sized 2.6 kernel alongside LinuxBIOS on one.
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Larry Matter wrote:
> > > If you want a stripped
> > > kernel to fit alongside LinuxBIOS on your BIOS ROM, you can do that as
> > > well (Look at targets/arima/hdama/Config.kernelimage.lb for an example).
> >
> > Last time I looked (or "googled" rather) it was not possible to squeeze a
> > kernel (plus linuxBios) into a 2 megabit bios rom.  Has this changed or
> > are you talking about mobos with bigger roms?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Larry
>
> Linuxbios mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.clustermatic.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxbios

Michael Robinson  writes:
> From what I've read on Via's site the EPIAs use a 2/4Mbit ROM, what is the
> limiting factor as to how big the ROM can be?

For an ISA or X-bus part the number of address lines. 
  4Mbit is the limit in a normal 32pin configuration.
For an LPC part the size of the chip you can buy.

AMD and Intel have switched over to using the LPC bus in their
chipsets a year or two ago.  I don't know what VIA has done, but
I expect their are also using the LPC bus by now.

Eric