Re: [coreboot] Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

[Timothy Pearson]

On 09/06/2017 01:05 PM, Rene Shuster wrote:
> Thanks for sharing this info.
>
> So the 4x SATA ports are optional and powered by PM8069, and they will
> only be present if you checkbox the "Integrated Microsemi SAS Controller
> (Proprietary)" on the purchase page, correct? Or in other words: if you
> don't checkbox "Integrated Microsemi SAS Controller (Proprietary)" you
> will receive a board with no SATA ports?

Correct.  Given the advantages of NVMe especially for a high-power
development system like the Talos™ II this was considered an acceptable
tradeoff.
> How is the Samsung NVMe drive physically connected (M.2/U.2 or PCIe
> slot)? What model# is it?

PCIe.  We'll be selecting an active model closer to machine ship;
Samsung part numbers can change over time so we don't necessarily want
to commit to a given part # at this point.
> So BCM it is. They have a pretty thorough Diagnostic for their NICs. I'm
> using it on some of our servers when it's time to run diagnostics. It's
> DOS based (but they have an UEFI version as well) and it does check
> quite a few things ("Register Tests, Memory Tests, Miscellaneous Tests,
> Data Tests, Cable Tests, APE Register Tests and APE Diagnostics
> Tests"). For the BCM5719 the diag is located here:
> https://docs.broadcom.com/docs-and-downloads/docs/eula_download/570x/B57udia...
> It includes the B57Diag.pdf which might be of interest for anyone who
> wants to reverse engineer the fw.

Sounds good.  This is the only device on the board that requires
firmware, but it is behind the IOMMU and the FSF has indicated that we
can still obtain RYF with this limitation.

That being said, we'd love to see a libre firmware created for this
controller as it would allow not only this system, but future systems,
to be blob-free while using a modern non-Intel GbE NIC...

-- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
[phone] (direct line)
[phone] (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com

Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

Will TALOS 2 support PCI-e expansion systems such as the ones from 
Cyclone Microsystems?
http://cyclone.com

Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

[Timothy Pearson]

On 09/06/2017 02:04 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> Will TALOS 2 support PCI-e expansion systems such as the ones from
> Cyclone Microsystems?
> http://cyclone.com

As long as any drivers (if required) are open source, then absolutely.
> From what I understand, no drivers are needed at all since the expansion
> is handled at the hardware level, so you should be able to just "plug
> and play".

Hope this helps!

-- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
[phone] (direct line)
[phone] (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com

Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

I am curious as to how Raptor got the funding for TALOS this time 
around, have major corporations finally seen the light and ordered some :D?

I also want to know as to what is wrong with Intel's NICs so that I can 
share it with others (and not buy them in the future) - is it just 
simply the fact that they are an anti-computing-freedom company? or is 
there a sneaky backdoor?


I am so incredibly happy that we at long last have an off the shelf 
ultra high performance secure and owner controlled product, raptor has 
done what many other companies said wasn't possible AND made it 
reasonably priced for the level of juice you get - serious kudos to 
everyone involved in bringing talos to life <3

Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

Also want to add why broadcom? I heard they didn't have a good attitude 
to open source and as a large company I imagine they have a lot of 
institutional inertia preventing that from changing? - why not one of 
the smaller NIC makers such as atheros, mellanox, solarflare etc?

Thank you for the future infos!

Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

[Timothy Pearson]

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On 09/08/2017 10:38 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> Also want to add why broadcom? I heard they didn't have a good attitude
> to open source and as a large company I imagine they have a lot of
> institutional inertia preventing that from changing? - why not one of
> the smaller NIC makers such as atheros, mellanox, solarflare etc?

Cost was the main driver for this design.  Our focus was on getting the
product to market at a reasonable price point, and Broadcom's NetXtreme
series already has excellent Linux driver support, meaning that we
didn't need to invest additional resources into driver development.
Depending on what the uptake of Talos II is (and therefore how much
"nice to have" development we can justify vs. simply keeping a
functional, RYF-certifiable product on the market) we may consider
changes to the NIC supplier in the future.

As to why not Intel, in addition to the obvious issues in relation to
sourcing a critical system component from a direct competitor, we have
experienced issues with Intel GbE NICs in the past under Linux related
to the on-chip firmware locking up and requiring a host reboot.  The
NetXtreme devices appear to be quite stable, and their internal
operation has already been partially documented, meaning development of
a true open firmware port is at least possible.  The same cannot be said
for the other players in this space.

- -- 
Timothy Pearson
Raptor Engineering
[phone] (direct line)
[phone] (switchboard)
https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

[Rene Shuster]

600-page documentation about the BCM5718 Family:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site:broadcom.com+5718+programmer's+reference+guide

Quote:
"This document covers the BCM5718 family of NetXtreme / NetLink Ethernet
controllers. This family of controllers includes the following devices:
• BCM5717
• BCM5718
• BCM5719
• BCM5720
The document focuses on the registers, control blocks, and software
interfaces necessary for host software programming."

Look like fantastic documentation. Is there no such thing as the EFF
starting a fundraiser/crowdfunding campaign, then hiring appropriate
firmware engineers and coming with with an open-source fw? In a perfect
world yes.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Timothy Pearson <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 09/08/2017 10:38 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> > Also want to add why broadcom? I heard they didn't have a good attitude
> > to open source and as a large company I imagine they have a lot of
> > institutional inertia preventing that from changing? - why not one of
> > the smaller NIC makers such as atheros, mellanox, solarflare etc?
>
> Cost was the main driver for this design.  Our focus was on getting the
> product to market at a reasonable price point, and Broadcom's NetXtreme
> series already has excellent Linux driver support, meaning that we
> didn't need to invest additional resources into driver development.
> Depending on what the uptake of Talos II is (and therefore how much
> "nice to have" development we can justify vs. simply keeping a
> functional, RYF-certifiable product on the market) we may consider
> changes to the NIC supplier in the future.
>
> As to why not Intel, in addition to the obvious issues in relation to
> sourcing a critical system component from a direct competitor, we have
> experienced issues with Intel GbE NICs in the past under Linux related
> to the on-chip firmware locking up and requiring a host reboot.  The
> NetXtreme devices appear to be quite stable, and their internal
> operation has already been partially documented, meaning development of
> a true open firmware port is at least possible.  The same cannot be said
> for the other players in this space.
>
> - --
> Timothy Pearson
> Raptor Engineering
> [phone] (direct line)
> [phone] (switchboard)
> https://www.raptorengineering.com
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Owner-controlled POWER9 Talos II [was: Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode]

[Merlin Büge]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 23:17:19 -0400
"[e-mail]" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I am curious as to how Raptor got the funding for TALOS this time 
> around, have major corporations finally seen the light and ordered
> some :D?

Here's some information on it:
https://www.raptorcs.com/blog/08212017001.php
See question " How did you bring the Talos™ product line to a more
affordable price point? "

Regards,
Merlin
> I also want to know as to what is wrong with Intel's NICs so that I
> can share it with others (and not buy them in the future) - is it
> just simply the fact that they are an anti-computing-freedom company?
> or is there a sneaky backdoor?
>
> I am so incredibly happy that we at long last have an off the shelf 
> ultra high performance secure and owner controlled product, raptor
> has done what many other companies said wasn't possible AND made it 
> reasonably priced for the level of juice you get - serious kudos to 
> everyone involved in bringing talos to life <3