What should we do about freenode IRC services?
Hi everybody, you might have heard that freenode.org recently changed management under weird circumstances. Given that we use their services for our project chat, this concerns us as well. In last week's leadership meeting we had a wide variety of opinions: To go for libera.chat (a network created by former freenode staff), some other IRC network, to leave IRC behind and go for something newer and Matrix and Mattermost have been brought up as examples of where this might lead. Of course, we could also decide to stay on freenode, although from what transpires that option seems less and less attractive every day. So, what should we do? Regards, Patrick
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 03:00:51PM +0200, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote:
Hi everybody,
you might have heard that freenode.org recently changed management under weird circumstances. Given that we use their services for our project chat, this concerns us as well.
In last week's leadership meeting we had a wide variety of opinions: To go for libera.chat (a network created by former freenode staff), some other IRC network, to leave IRC behind and go for something newer and Matrix and Mattermost have been brought up as examples of where this might lead. Of course, we could also decide to stay on freenode, although from what transpires that option seems less and less attractive every day.
So, what should we do?
As far as other IRC networks go, OFTC is another popular choice among those leaving Freenode. Matrix sounds good, especially because it can be bridged to an IRC channel. I'd be sad to see coreboot disappear from IRC entirely, but I think a combined Matrix/IRC channel is a good way forward. Best regards, Jonathan Neuschäfer
On Tue, 25 May 2021 15:08:23 +0200 Jonathan Neuschäfer <j.neuschaefer@gmx.net> wrote:
As far as other IRC networks go, OFTC is another popular choice among those leaving Freenode.
Matrix sounds good, especially because it can be bridged to an IRC channel. I'd be sad to see coreboot disappear from IRC entirely, but I think a combined Matrix/IRC channel is a good way forward.
+1 The important thing (for myself anyway) is that the bridge can be part of an existing network. Mattermost supports a bridge directly but you have to connect your irc client to that bridge instead of the bridge joining a channel. I am using that for one project but it's not ideal from my PoV. IIRC there was already another bridge to some MM server that worked differently in the past. What's the status of that, Patrick? I personally am already on libera and OFTC so I don't really care which of those two. AFAICT the vast majority of my channels has moved to libera. Some have not decided yet, and 0 went to OFTC. -- Kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Stefan Tauner
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 03:00:51PM +0200, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote:
Hi everybody,
you might have heard that freenode.org recently changed management under weird circumstances. Given that we use their services for our project chat, this concerns us as well.
In last week's leadership meeting we had a wide variety of opinions: To go for libera.chat (a network created by former freenode staff), some other IRC network, to leave IRC behind and go for something newer and Matrix and Mattermost have been brought up as examples of where this might lead. Of course, we could also decide to stay on freenode, although from what transpires that option seems less and less attractive every day.
So, what should we do?
I want some sort of IRC still, but not on freenode. I'm comfortable with either libera or OFTC, but would also tolerate a coreboot & friends IRC server if required to bridge to some sort of more complicated system that others may want more than IRC.
Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote:
So, what should we do?
I don't think it's a horrible idea to just chill and see what happens. I find it interesting that christel seems invested in the Handshake project. //Peter
On Wed, 26 May 2021 00:03:34 +0000, Peter Stuge wrote:
I don't think it's a horrible idea to just chill and see what happens. I find it interesting that christel seems invested in the Handshake project.
IMO we have chilled enough to see what happens. Currently most channels which mention libera in their topic get forcibly taken over be the new freenode staff and moved to the ## namespace, like here[0]. Personally, I want to move away from this network ASAP. Regards, -- Merlin Büge [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27285774
Hi all, On Tue, 25 May 2021 15:00:51 +0200, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote:
So, what should we do?
I'm not a dev but long-time user of coreboot. I would be happy with staying on IRC (OFTC or libera) or switching to something that could easily be bridged to IRC. I also think that would fit nicely with coreboot's philosophy (simplistic, no-frills, etc.). Regards, -- Merlin Büge
On Tue, 2021-05-25 at 15:00 +0200, Patrick Georgi via coreboot wrote:
So, what should we do?
In my opinion, we should move away as long as we are able to. They are taking over channels which mention or reference any other chat service in their topic. See [1][2][3][4]. They might get other crazy ideas in the future (or maybe already have), who knows. I would still like to have the possibility to chat over IRC. We shouldn't do a "hard" move to another chat service, like Matrix or Mattermost, since I think there is not enough time to evaluate all non- IRC options and we shouldn't wait much longer. We should rather remain on IRC and use a bridge. This way, people will have enough time to get familiar with the alternative chat service, if we decide (at some later point) to move away from IRC completely. Some thoughts regarding libera <-> OFTC: - The services on libera work like the ones on freenode, while OFTC works a bit different afaik. - The Matrix bridge for libera is WIP. I am not sure if OFTC has one. I couldn't find anything on their website. I am registered on libera and OFTC and I am fine with both, but I don't really use OFTC. Both networks already have a coreboot channel created by people related to the project. Currently, on libera there are 46 people and on OFTC 2 people (me included). So I would say let's move to libera. // Felix [1] https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1397401277072646145 [2] https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1397402818324140033 [3] https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1397389042619097095 [4] https://twitter.com/andy_kelley/status/1397388932367601665
On Wed, 26 May 2021 06:38:58 +0000, Felix Singer wrote:
- The Matrix bridge for libera is WIP. I am not sure if OFTC has one. I couldn't find anything on their website.
OFTC has a working matrix bridge. But I guess given the current situation, libera will have one soon, too (but I don't know). -- Merlin Büge
Dear coreboot folks, Am 26.05.21 um 08:38 schrieb Felix Singer: […]
Currently, on libera there are 46 people and on OFTC 2 people (me included).
So I would say let's move to libera.
Agreed. Let’s do what most members in #coreboot users already did. Kind regards, Paul
Currently, on libera there are 46 people and on OFTC 2 people (me included).
So I would say let's move to libera.
Agreed. Let’s do what most members in #coreboot users already did. +1
I know I'm not a regular contributor or anything, but fwiw currently the only channels keeping me connected to freenode are #coreboot and #flashrom (I assume flashrom will just tag along where coreboot goes), so .. let's go, we've watched this long enough. -- Urja Rannikko
Am 27.05.21 um 11:22 schrieb Urja Rannikko:
Currently, on libera there are 46 people and on OFTC 2 people (me included).
So I would say let's move to libera. Agreed. Let’s do what most members in #coreboot users already did. +1
I know I'm not a regular contributor or anything, but fwiw currently the only channels keeping me connected to freenode are #coreboot and #flashrom (I assume flashrom will just tag along where coreboot goes), so .. let's go, we've watched this long enough.
The shipped flashrom binaries, the man page and the README mention IRC directly. I think we should start with pointing users to a flashrom.org web page instead of mentioning IRC in case another move (Matrix, IRC, Discord, whatever) is needed or desired. Once such a patch is committed, we would have to get all the distribution packages updated to point to the new location. Doable, but it's a lot of work. Regards, Carl-Daniel
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 6:01 AM Patrick Georgi via coreboot < coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:
Hi everybody,
you might have heard that freenode.org recently changed management under weird circumstances. Given that we use their services for our project chat, this concerns us as well.
In last week's leadership meeting we had a wide variety of opinions: To go for libera.chat (a network created by former freenode staff), some other IRC network, to leave IRC behind and go for something newer and Matrix and Mattermost have been brought up as examples of where this might lead. Of course, we could also decide to stay on freenode, although from what transpires that option seems less and less attractive every day.
So, what should we do?
As we are present on a number of social media, I want to throw in another option - which some folks will love, and others will hate - and that's perfectly fine. This community has grown enough that there will never be a one size fits all again: Discord It can both be accessed in a web browser or through a mobile app. I started a "Discord Server" for us there. If you want to come check it out, join us through https://discord.gg/JqT8NM5Zbg Stefan
Regards, Patrick _______________________________________________ coreboot mailing list -- coreboot@coreboot.org To unsubscribe send an email to coreboot-leave@coreboot.org
Hi list, On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:39 AM Stefan Reinauer <stefan.k.reinauer@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 6:01 AM Patrick Georgi via coreboot <coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:
Hi everybody,
you might have heard that freenode.org recently changed management under weird circumstances. Given that we use their services for our project chat, this concerns us as well.
In last week's leadership meeting we had a wide variety of opinions: To go for libera.chat (a network created by former freenode staff), some other IRC network, to leave IRC behind and go for something newer and Matrix and Mattermost have been brought up as examples of where this might lead. Of course, we could also decide to stay on freenode, although from what transpires that option seems less and less attractive every day.
So, what should we do?
I'd suggest moving to Libera. I think the Matrix bridge to Libera is running now.
As we are present on a number of social media, I want to throw in another option - which some folks will love, and others will hate - and that's perfectly fine. This community has grown enough that there will never be a one size fits all again:
Discord
It can both be accessed in a web browser or through a mobile app. I started a "Discord Server" for us there. If you want to come check it out, join us through https://discord.gg/JqT8NM5Zbg
Sure, we can have both IRC and Discord.
Stefan
Regards, Patrick
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:23 AM Urja Rannikko <urjaman@gmail.com> wrote:
Currently, on libera there are 46 people and on OFTC 2 people (me included).
So I would say let's move to libera.
Agreed. Let’s do what most members in #coreboot users already did. +1
I know I'm not a regular contributor or anything, but fwiw currently the only channels keeping me connected to freenode are #coreboot and #flashrom (I assume flashrom will just tag along where coreboot goes), so .. let's go, we've watched this long enough.
Yes, definitely. It wouldn't make sense to have #coreboot on one IRC server and #flashrom on another.
-- Urja Rannikko
Best regards, Angel
27. Mai 2021 11:44, "Angel Pons" <th3fanbus@gmail.com> schrieb:
On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 6:01 AM Patrick Georgi via coreboot <coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote:
So, what should we do?
I'd suggest moving to Libera. I think the Matrix bridge to Libera is running now. It is: #coreboot:libera.chat is accessible (although you'll need to go through the nickserv dance and ideally !storepass your nickserv password in the 'liberachat IRC Bridge status' room to make things reasonably automatic)
So far I haven't seen strong objection to IRC, but no stated desire to stay on freenode, while its admins behave more erratically every day. For that reason I created https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/55010 and https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/55011 that retarget IRC links to libera.chat, promote the Matrix bridge and the Discord presence. Regards, Patrick
Hi, On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:05 AM Patrick Georgi <patrick@georgi-clan.de> wrote:
For that reason I created https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/55010 and https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/55011 that retarget IRC links to libera.chat, promote the Matrix bridge and the Discord presence.
Last link doesn't work, try with: https://review.coreboot.org/c/homepage/+/55011
Regards, Patrick
Best regards, Angel
On Thursday, May 27, 2021 10:14 AM, Angel Pons <th3fanbus@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:05 AM Patrick Georgi patrick@georgi-clan.de wrote:
For that reason I created https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/55010 and https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/55011 that retarget IRC links to libera.chat, promote the Matrix bridge and the Discord presence.
Last link doesn't work, try with:https://review.coreboot.org/c/homepage/+/55011
Nice, I wouldn't use libera.chat since they banned all tor traffic by default. OFTC respect more of user privacy but seems nobody are willing to use. Then Matrix is a good option. Thanks. regards Shawn
Am 28.05.2021 um 07:54 schrieb Shawn C:
Nice, I wouldn't use libera.chat since they banned all tor traffic by default. OFTC respect more of user privacy but seems nobody are willing to use. Then Matrix is a good option. Thanks.
They seem to have a dedicated tor service now, described at https://libera.chat/guides/connect#accessing-liberachat-via-tor So much as I understand tor that seems to be preferable over using tor's exit node network. Patrick
participants (13)
-
Angel Pons -
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Felix Singer -
Jonathan A. Kollasch -
Jonathan Neuschäfer -
Merlin Büge -
Patrick Georgi -
Paul Menzel -
Peter Stuge -
Shawn C -
Stefan Reinauer -
Stefan Tauner -
Urja Rannikko