National Semiconductor Geode GX1 ?

[Rob van Nieuwkerk]

Hi All,

I am using a small (4"x6") SBC board with a NS Geode GX1 and CS5530
for a project. It's a complete PC on a 3.5" formfactor (300 MHz Geode,
SODIMM, floppy, IDE, CF, serial, Ethernet, USB, keyboard, mouse, Video,
LCD, PC/104).  See:

	http://www.axiomtek.com/product-info.php?cat=Embedded+PCs&model=SBC84510VEE&...

And I'm very interested in using linuxbios with this board (or a similar
board: there are several manufacturers making small boards like this).

I searched the linuxbios mailing-list archives for messages about Geode
systems, but I only found references about SC1200 and SC2200 systems.
And I did't find info on the Geode GX1 in the linuxbios status list.

So my question is:

  - anybody know something about the possibility of running linuxbios
    on a NS Geode GX1 ?

	greetings,
	Rob van Nieuwkerk

[Andrew Ip]

Rob,
> I am using a small (4"x6") SBC board with a NS Geode GX1 and CS5530
> for a project. It's a complete PC on a 3.5" formfactor (300 MHz Geode,
> SODIMM, floppy, IDE, CF, serial, Ethernet, USB, keyboard, mouse, Video,
> LCD, PC/104).  See:
>   http://www.axiomtek.com/product-info.php?cat=Embedded+PCs&model=SBC84510VEE&...
> The config is similar to advantech's pcm-582X series.  Should be possible to
> get LinuxBIOS support on these.

-Andrew

-- 
Andrew Ip
Email:  [e-mail]
Tel:    [phone]
Fax:    [phone]
Mobile: [phone]

Cwlinux Limited
Unit 202B 2/F Lai Cheong Factory Building,
479-479A Castle Peak Road,
Lai Chi Kok, Kowloon,
Hong Kong.

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

For public pgp key, please obtain it from http://www.keyserver.net/en.

[Christer Weinigel]

Rob van Nieuwkerk <[e-mail]> writes:
> Hi All,
>
> I am using a small (4"x6") SBC board with a NS Geode GX1 and CS5530
> for a project. It's a complete PC on a 3.5" formfactor (300 MHz Geode,
> SODIMM, floppy, IDE, CF, serial, Ethernet, USB, keyboard, mouse, Video,
> LCD, PC/104).  See:
> I searched the linuxbios mailing-list archives for messages about Geode
> systems, but I only found references about SC1200 and SC2200 systems.
> And I did't find info on the Geode GX1 in the linuxbios status list.
> So my question is:
>
> - anybody know something about the possibility of running linuxbios
>     on a NS Geode GX1 ?

The SC2200 is a GX1 CPU core integrated with a modified CS5530 and
PC97317 Super I/O on a chip.  So yes, the GX1 is supported.  Look at
one of the supported boards for more info:

    src/mainboard/advantech/pcm-5823
    src/mainboard/cocom/voyager2

The GX1 and CS5530 support can be found in:

    src/northbridge/nsc/gx1
    src/southbridge/nsc/cs5530

The same limitations that apply to the SC2200 apply to the GX1+CS5530
port.  

<cut'n'paste>
    There is no video support in LinuxBIOS itself, so you won't get
    any video until you have loaded the NatSemi Geode Linux
    framebuffer driver (can be found at www.linux4.tv under the
    heading SP1SC10 Platform Image).

    There is no SMM/VSA support at all, this means that anything
    relying on it won't work.  What this means is that Audio won't
    work.

Other than that everything works fine, IDE in PIO mode, the PCI bus.
</cut'n'paste>

   /Christer

-- 
"Just how much can I get away with and still go to heaven?"

Freelance consultant specializing in device driver programming for Linux 
Christer Weinigel <[e-mail]>  http://www.weinigel.se

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Christer Weinigel <[e-mail]> [021129 14:07]:
> Rob van Nieuwkerk <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> The SC2200 is a GX1 CPU core integrated with a modified CS5530 and
> PC97317 Super I/O on a chip.  So yes, the GX1 is supported.  Look at
> one of the supported boards for more info:
>
> src/mainboard/advantech/pcm-5823
>     src/mainboard/cocom/voyager2
> there's another one:
>       src/mainboard/supertek/st3wt/

Stefan


-- 
The x86 isn't all that complex - it just doesn't make a lot of
sense.          -- Mike Johnson, Leader of 80x86 Design at AMD
	                          Microprocessor Report (1994)

[Bari Ari]

Christer Weinigel wrote:
> <cut'n'paste>
>    There is no video support in LinuxBIOS itself, so you won't get
>    any video until you have loaded the NatSemi Geode Linux
>    framebuffer driver (can be found at www.linux4.tv under the
>    heading SP1SC10 Platform Image).
>
> There is no SMM/VSA support at all, this means that anything
>    relying on it won't work.  What this means is that Audio won't
>    work.
>
> Other than that everything works fine, IDE in PIO mode, the PCI bus.
> </cut'n'paste>

Has anyone tried to load the SMM/VSA as a binary using the Xpressloader 
source with LinuxBIOS to have SMM/VSA working?

Bari

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Bari Ari <[e-mail]> [021129 18:44]:
> Christer Weinigel wrote:
> > <cut'n'paste>
> >    There is no video support in LinuxBIOS itself, so you won't get
> >    any video until you have loaded the NatSemi Geode Linux
> >    framebuffer driver (can be found at www.linux4.tv under the
> >    heading SP1SC10 Platform Image).
> >
> > There is no SMM/VSA support at all, this means that anything
> >    relying on it won't work.  What this means is that Audio won't
> >    work.
> >
> > Other than that everything works fine, IDE in PIO mode, the PCI bus.
> > </cut'n'paste>
>
> Has anyone tried to load the SMM/VSA as a binary using the Xpressloader 
> source with LinuxBIOS to have SMM/VSA working?

I've looked at it but did not follow it further. Seems like VSA1 has
some 16bit interface, but i am not sure about vsa2. so basically one
would have to find a proper place during system bootup and just jump
into the binary, taking the structure of vsa binaries into regard.
any hints on known pitfalls? Christer?

Best regards,
  Stefan Reinauer
  
-- 
The x86 isn't all that complex - it just doesn't make a lot of
sense.          -- Mike Johnson, Leader of 80x86 Design at AMD
	                          Microprocessor Report (1994)

[Christer Weinigel]

[Stefan, sorry for the second copy, I forgot to do a wide reply in
gnus.  *still learning gnus*]

Stefan Reinauer <[e-mail]> writes:
> * Bari Ari <[e-mail]> [021129 18:44]:
> > Has anyone tried to load the SMM/VSA as a binary using the Xpressloader 
> > source with LinuxBIOS to have SMM/VSA working?
> I've looked at it but did not follow it further. Seems like VSA1 has
> some 16bit interface, but i am not sure about vsa2. so basically one
> would have to find a proper place during system bootup and just jump
> into the binary, taking the structure of vsa binaries into regard.
> any hints on known pitfalls? Christer?

IIRC, the VSA2 BIOS requires a few INT 15H services to work, so with
Bochs in LinuxBIOS it should be possible to just do as you say.  The
exact procedure is documented in some NatSemi document that I don't
know if I have access to anymore.

How about the licensing?  I think the VSA BIOS freely available from
NatSemi if one gets the XPressROM kit from them, but what does the GPL
say about calling a binary object?  In my mind there is no linking
done if a GPL:ed application contains a binary blob which it
uncompresses into memory and then jumps to an address within the blob,
but people were quite anal retentive about GPL:ed applications using
the Qt toolkit a few years ago, so there could be trouble.

  /Christer

-- 
"Just how much can I get away with and still go to heaven?"

Freelance consultant specializing in device driver programming for Linux 
Christer Weinigel <[e-mail]>  http://www.weinigel.se

[Peter Stuge]

On Sat, Nov 30, 2002 at 12:30:35PM +0100, Christer Weinigel wrote:
> IIRC, the VSA2 BIOS requires a few INT 15H services to work, so with
> Bochs in LinuxBIOS it should be possible to just do as you say.  The
> exact procedure is documented in some NatSemi document that I don't
> know if I have access to anymore.

I've seen references to int 15h function 4358h (VSA Init Callbacks) and the
two documents titled "VSA/BIOS Porting Guide" and "Virtual System
Architecture BIOS Porting Guide" seem to be what you're referring to.
> How about the licensing?  I think the VSA BIOS freely available from
> NatSemi if one gets the XPressROM kit from them, but what does the GPL
> say about calling a binary object?  In my mind there is no linking
> done if a GPL:ed application contains a binary blob which it
> uncompresses into memory and then jumps to an address within the blob,
> but people were quite anal retentive about GPL:ed applications using
> the Qt toolkit a few years ago, so there could be trouble.

I've seen Linux kernel drivers that contain blobs, usually some microcode
for some chip on the card, and are licensed under GPL.  The binary blob can
have a separate license however.  See e.g. the license for "tc990image" in
http://support.3com.com/infodeli/tools/nic/linux/3c990-24-1.0.0a.tar.gz
in the file 3c990.c.  (This is a NIC with some IPSEC helper functions.)


//Peter

[Bari Ari]

Christer Weinigel wrote:
> How about the licensing?  I think the VSA BIOS freely available from
> NatSemi if one gets the XPressROM kit from them, but what does the GPL
> say about calling a binary object?  In my mind there is no linking
> done if a GPL:ed application contains a binary blob which it
> uncompresses into memory and then jumps to an address within the blob,
> but people were quite anal retentive about GPL:ed applications using
> the Qt toolkit a few years ago, so there could be trouble.

There was a good write up about this in

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5041108431.html

Calling a binary isn't ideal, but until someone spends the time to 
reverse it, this is a way to go to get features working.

We see this all the time with Video BIOS for chipsets with integrated 
graphics and also certain other functions of chipsets. The vendors 
supply us with source under a tight NDA or just a binary and a script 
file with a utility to modify the binary without ever having to give us 
source.

Lets see, use a binary to get a product to market right away or spend 
weeks or months reversing code and having a product ready for market 
much later?

Bari

[Stefan Reinauer]

* Christer Weinigel <[e-mail]> [021130 12:30]:
> How about the licensing?  I think the VSA BIOS freely available from
> NatSemi if one gets the XPressROM kit from them, but what does the GPL
> say about calling a binary object?  In my mind there is no linking
> done if a GPL:ed application contains a binary blob which it
> uncompresses into memory and then jumps to an address within the blob,
> but people were quite anal retentive about GPL:ed applications using
> the Qt toolkit a few years ago, so there could be trouble.

Still, it's not a legal problem to use Grub oder Lilo for loading and
jumping into this binary blob called windows. If putting VSA2 code to 
ROM would be a problem for whatever reason, it could be loaded from a
different media, as vsa is not needed to get IDE working.

  Stefan

-- 
The x86 isn't all that complex - it just doesn't make a lot of
sense.          -- Mike Johnson, Leader of 80x86 Design at AMD
	                          Microprocessor Report (1994)

[Ronald G. Minnich]

I see no problem with putting vsa2 to rom. I just don't know how to use it 
:-)

ron

[Peter Stuge]

On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 10:05:21AM -0700, Ronald G. Minnich wrote:
> I see no problem with putting vsa2 to rom. I just don't know how to use
> it :-)

E.g. via int 10h, or outb(0x220,..)..  VSA (and 2) is used to provide the
old software interface to the new hardware that works in quite different
(better, hopefully) ways.

When int 10h is called, or port 0x220 or 0x92 is accessed, an smint (system
management interrupt, found on mobile CPUs for suspending and so on) is
generated and the "low level" OS driver ends up talking to software instead
of hardware.  Practical and economic, when you grasp the concept.

Some VSA things are complete functions (xpressaudio, no sound will be heard
without the xpressaudio VSA ROM) while others are only one way to access
that particular feature (video BIOS, the framebuffer driver works as well
which means that the video BIOS isn't strictly needed although nice for boot
debugging) and yet others may be simple, optional, addons.


//Peter