According to the manufacturer, they are out of the BIOS Saver's and do not plan on manufacturing more. I tried to inquire about what quantity was needed to get them to make more, but didn't hear back from them.
This is disappointing. Either the PLCC package was designed to protect the motherboard socket, or it was designed to discourage people from doing bios work. It's horrible. Every time you remove the chip it bends the pins around. It's only a matter of time until the pins break off. Despite being careful with a small screwdriver and even using a PLCC chip puller. Fry's only has one and it's not well designed. I don't fish so I don't have fishing string for that other seemingly troublesome trick.
It would be helpful if there was a chip socket that could be pulled straight up with one's fingers. Perhaps there are enough engineers and interest that we could cleverly design such a device (or something else ingenious) and have a bunch of them made?
Along the same lines, has anyone tried using different size SST chips? I tried to duplicate the 256KB bios by putting it in a 512KB chip (SST 28SF040A vs 39SF020A). This didn't seem to work (no beep or video but didn't try port 80 parallel card yet). Perhaps someone knows if this should work. Can someone recommend a good place to get a handful of SST 39SF02A PLCC chips for these experiments?
Thanks, Jeff
No more BIOS Saver... Hummm. This I may be able to help with. What packages do we want/need? PLCC32 and DIP32? Does that cover 95% of motherboards?
I found dental floss works well for pulling the chip. Take two peaces and wrap them around the chip one vertically and one horizontally, tie all four ends together and you have a nice way to pull the chip again and again.....
Different size chips. I have a VIA epia-mII that i have been trying to get linuxbios installed on. I am using both the sst 39sf020 (256k) and the sst 39sf040 (512k). The board see's both and is able to boot from both. I did find out that the "stock" bios image will only boot off the 256, when i flash the stock 256k image onto the 512k chip it will not boot. No clue as to why. This could be a function of my programmer, not sure. -Adam
Jeff Carr wrote:
According to the manufacturer, they are out of the BIOS Saver's and do not plan on manufacturing more. I tried to inquire about what quantity was needed to get them to make more, but didn't hear back from them.
This is disappointing. Either the PLCC package was designed to protect the motherboard socket, or it was designed to discourage people from doing bios work. It's horrible. Every time you remove the chip it bends the pins around. It's only a matter of time until the pins break off. Despite being careful with a small screwdriver and even using a PLCC chip puller. Fry's only has one and it's not well designed. I don't fish so I don't have fishing string for that other seemingly troublesome trick.
It would be helpful if there was a chip socket that could be pulled straight up with one's fingers. Perhaps there are enough engineers and interest that we could cleverly design such a device (or something else ingenious) and have a bunch of them made?
Along the same lines, has anyone tried using different size SST chips? I tried to duplicate the 256KB bios by putting it in a 512KB chip (SST 28SF040A vs 39SF020A). This didn't seem to work (no beep or video but didn't try port 80 parallel card yet). Perhaps someone knows if this should work. Can someone recommend a good place to get a handful of SST 39SF02A PLCC chips for these experiments?
Thanks, Jeff
256, when i flash the stock 256k image onto the 512k chip it will not boot. No clue as to why. This could be a function of my programmer, not sure.
Duplicate the image into both of halfs of the 512k chip. Whats probally happening is that the additional address line on the 512k chip is not pulled down on the board so its floating and your chip is selecting addresses in the unprogrammed area of the chip. If you dup the image then it won't matter what the floating address line is doing.
That is as long as the line dosn't float into the "undefined" range and cause a latchup.
Perhaps there are enough engineers and interest that we could cleverly design such a device (or something else ingenious) and have a bunch of them made?
The best solution I have found is a hole in the board, so you can poke it out. I put one in all of the boards I design, but I have never seen one on a motherboard. All of the pullers I have used eventually bend pins. Have you tried dental flloss? It works pretty well, but you need a puller to get the first one out.
Steve
On 09/14/2005 12:21 PM, Steve Gehlbach wrote:
Perhaps there are enough engineers and interest that we could cleverly design such a device (or something else ingenious) and have a bunch of them made?
The best solution I have found is a hole in the board, so you can poke it out. I put one in all of the boards I design, but I have never seen one on a motherboard. All of the pullers I have used eventually bend pins. Have you tried dental flloss? It works pretty well, but you need a puller to get the first one out.
Ok, ok -- I'll listen to the masses and follow this method. :)
Still, I'd rather make an adapter. I've been told that production motherboard PLCC adapters are usally only rated for about 10 insertions. An adapter must be manufactured I think. Perhaps someone has some experience with plastic mold injection adapter design & fabrication.
Jeff
On 09/14/2005 12:07 PM, Adam Talbot wrote:
No more BIOS Saver... Hummm. This I may be able to help with. What packages do we want/need? PLCC32 and DIP32? Does that cover 95% of motherboards?
I'd say more than half of currently manufactured motherboards are PLCC32.
Different size chips. I have a VIA epia-mII that i have been trying to get linuxbios installed on. I am using both the sst 39sf020 (256k) and the sst 39sf040 (512k). The board see's both and is able to boot from both. I did find out that the "stock" bios image will only boot off the 256, when i flash the stock 256k image onto the 512k chip it will not boot. No clue as to why. This could be a function of my programmer, not sure.
Thanks for the feedback; good to know I'm not the only one. Jeff
On 09/14/2005 12:19 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
256, when i flash the stock 256k image onto the 512k chip it will not boot. No clue as to why. This could be a function of my programmer, not sure.
Duplicate the image into both of halfs of the 512k chip. Whats probally happening is that the additional address line on the 512k chip is not pulled down on the board so its floating and your chip is selecting addresses in the unprogrammed area of the chip. If you dup the image then it won't matter what the floating address line is doing.
That is as long as the line dosn't float into the "undefined" range and cause a latchup.
Clever. I'll try that now.
I think I can reach in and touch Pin 1,2 & 30 with a small wire; then just ground them to the case. (?)
Jeff
On 09/14/2005 12:19 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
256, when i flash the stock 256k image onto the 512k chip it will not boot. No clue as to why. This could be a function of my programmer, not sure.
Duplicate the image into both of halfs of the 512k chip. Whats probally happening is that the additional address line on the 512k chip is not pulled down on the board so its floating and your chip is selecting addresses in the unprogrammed area of the chip. If you dup the image then it won't matter what the floating address line is doing.
That is as long as the line dosn't float into the "undefined" range and cause a latchup.
You are clever. That worked. At least one time anyway. :)
Good, I can finally give linuxbios a go. First to try flash & burn now.
Jeff
Have you guy's looked at this as a replacement? http://www.loet.de/flasher_en.html -Adam
Jeff Carr wrote:
On 09/14/2005 12:19 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
256, when i flash the stock 256k image onto the 512k chip it will not boot. No clue as to why. This could be a function of my programmer, not sure.
Duplicate the image into both of halfs of the 512k chip. Whats probally happening is that the additional address line on the 512k chip is not pulled down on the board so its floating and your chip is selecting addresses in the unprogrammed area of the chip. If you dup the image then it won't matter what the floating address line is doing.
That is as long as the line dosn't float into the "undefined" range and cause a latchup.
You are clever. That worked. At least one time anyway. :)
Good, I can finally give linuxbios a go. First to try flash & burn now.
Jeff
On 09/14/2005 07:06 PM, Adam Talbot wrote:
Have you guy's looked at this as a replacement? http://www.loet.de/flasher_en.html
No, woulda never found that. I put it in the FAQ. Looks perfect to me. And someone just added kernel 2.6 drivers in March. http://sourceforge.net/projects/ctflasher/
Perfect, thanks a lot. Jeff
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Jeff Carr wrote:
Still, I'd rather make an adapter. I've been told that production motherboard PLCC adapters are usally only rated for about 10 insertions. An adapter must be manufactured I think. Perhaps someone has some experience with plastic mold injection adapter design & fabrication.
I have quite good experience with injection moulding, though not with adapters. That should not be a problem though. I've worked with injection moulding within the car industry here in Sweden since '97 (designed injection moulded parts that is). What do you wish to know?
Best regards
Peter K
I have a really neat set of adapters I picked up in Taiwan a few years ago. The first one is an adapter from PLCC32 to DIL32 - it stands about 2 inches high and slots directly into a PLCC slot. I have put a ZIF socket into that. I also managed to pick up an adapter from DIL to PLCC, and that has a special ZIF PLCC socket. I can try to see if a friend of mine in Taipei can find more of these - I recall paying just a few dollars for both adapters, and they have proved invaluable.
Hamish
Peter Karlsson wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Jeff Carr wrote:
Still, I'd rather make an adapter. I've been told that production motherboard PLCC adapters are usally only rated for about 10 insertions. An adapter must be manufactured I think. Perhaps someone has some experience with plastic mold injection adapter design & fabrication.
I have quite good experience with injection moulding, though not with adapters. That should not be a problem though. I've worked with injection moulding within the car industry here in Sweden since '97 (designed injection moulded parts that is). What do you wish to know?
Best regards
Peter K
and that has a special ZIF PLCC socket. I can try to see if a friend of mine in Taipei can find more of these - I recall paying just a few dollars for both adapters, and they have proved invaluable.
Just a couple of dollars? Wow! Thats awesome. emulation.com normally has stuff like that for a hundred plus dollars. If you find some I'll buy a few.
There is a large mall in Taipei somewhere (my Taiwanese friend knows where), and I went there to have a look around and I just happend to see these adapters, and I was blown away by their prices - if I remember correctly, the PLCC->DIL adapter was about US$5 and the DIL->ZIF PLCC was about $12 - I also picked up about 6 regular DIL32 ZIF sockets for $3 each. I had previously bought these sort of things from emulation and the like, and as you say, their prices are crazy. I have sent an e-mail to my friend in Taipei, and will see what he comes back with.
Richard Smith wrote:
and that has a special ZIF PLCC socket. I can try to see if a friend of mine in Taipei can find more of these - I recall paying just a few dollars for both adapters, and they have proved invaluable.
Just a couple of dollars? Wow! Thats awesome. emulation.com normally has stuff like that for a hundred plus dollars. If you find some I'll buy a few.
I have put 2 photos on a web server
http://www.prodigi.ch/adaptor/plccdil.jpg
and
http://www.prodigi.ch/adaptor/plcczif.jpg
The plccdil picture shows the adaptor from PLCC to DIL32, with one of the 32-PIN ZIF sockets I bought plugged into the top of it.
The 2nd image is the PLCC ZIF socket - incedentally, it does not show in the picture, but at the bottom it has 32 pins sticking out IN a DIL arrangement which can plug into an EPROM programmer (well into a DIL ZIF socket actually).
Hamish Guthrie wrote:
There is a large mall in Taipei somewhere (my Taiwanese friend knows where), and I went there to have a look around and I just happend to see these adapters, and I was blown away by their prices - if I remember correctly, the PLCC->DIL adapter was about US$5 and the DIL->ZIF PLCC was about $12 - I also picked up about 6 regular DIL32 ZIF sockets for $3 each. I had previously bought these sort of things from emulation and the like, and as you say, their prices are crazy. I have sent an e-mail to my friend in Taipei, and will see what he comes back with.
Richard Smith wrote:
and that has a special ZIF PLCC socket. I can try to see if a friend of mine in Taipei can find more of these - I recall paying just a few dollars for both adapters, and they have proved invaluable.
Just a couple of dollars? Wow! Thats awesome. emulation.com normally has stuff like that for a hundred plus dollars. If you find some I'll buy a few.
The plccdil picture shows the adaptor from PLCC to DIL32, with one of the 32-PIN ZIF sockets I bought plugged into the top of it.
The 2nd image is the PLCC ZIF socket - incedentally, it does not show in the picture, but at the bottom it has 32 pins sticking out IN a DIL arrangement which can plug into an EPROM programmer (well into a DIL ZIF socket actually).
Yep. Looks just like the stuff that I have.
and that has a special ZIF PLCC socket. I can try to see if a friend of mine in Taipei can find more of these - I recall paying just a few dollars for both adapters, and they have proved invaluable.
Just a couple of dollars? Wow! Thats awesome. emulation.com normally has stuff like that for a hundred plus dollars. If you find some I'll buy a few.
FYI, See this. http://fab51.com/workshop/bios/dual_bios2.html
This guy solders a chip directly to a M/B. Maybe he could not get a socket.
--- Okajima.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 11:35:53AM -0700, Jeff Carr wrote:
I tried to duplicate the 256KB bios by putting it in a 512KB chip (SST 28SF040A vs 39SF020A). This didn't seem to work (no beep or video but didn't try port 80 parallel card yet). Perhaps someone knows if this should work.
Should. 39SF is flash while 28SF is EEPROM, but in practise this just means that 39SF is faster. As long as you can pull A18 low it should work just fine.
Can someone recommend a good place to get a handful of SST 39SF02A PLCC chips for these experiments?
Try contacting your local SST distributor. It's Memec here in Sweden, but I'm not sure if they're exclusive worldwide.
If you have a business they're usually happy to sell you down to $150 worth of goods per purchase.
//Peter
OK, Guys's... is this one real or a scam.
I was sucked in…I don’t REALLY have need of a Mac Mini, but I figured “what the hey”…it’s another toy for Linux bios. I went to the website (Link at bottem) and followed the instructions: fill in personal info (name, address, phone, etc…all easy enough information to find on the web anyway), then wade through all the “optional” offers that you can ignore, then complete one “offer” which is basically a purchase from some sponsoring companies (I needed print cartridges so I bought a couple for my home printer), then refer a couple of other people to the site. Kinda feels like a pyramid-form-letter kinda thing, but I bought something I needed and stand to possibly get a Mac Mini out of the deal. Not bad.
http://minimacs.freepay.com/?r=22580525
-Adam Talbot
On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 23:42 -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
OK, Guys's... is this one real or a scam.
I was sucked in…I don’t REALLY have need of a Mac Mini, but I figured “what the hey”…it’s another toy for Linux bios. I went to the website (Link at bottem) and followed the instructions: fill in personal info
Of course it is a scam. And without any evidence to the contrary I assume your mail is too. Can someone remove it from the archive.
Justin
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Adam Talbot -
Hamish Guthrie -
Jeff Carr -
Jun OKAJIMA -
Justin Cormack -
Peter Karlsson -
Peter Stuge -
Richard Smith -
Steve Gehlbach