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On 01/25/2017 11:26 AM, Aaron Durbin wrote:
On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Timothy Pearson tpearson@raptorengineering.com wrote: On 01/24/2017 10:55 PM, Taiidan@gmx.com wrote:
I know the 63xx has a very fatal NMI exploit, but according to the libreboot (oh no) website the 62xx works safely out of the box without microcode however I would like to confirm if this is actually true.
I looked at the errata .pdf from the AMD website but I didn't see anything that seemed significant.
As far as we have been able to determine it does, again with the caveat that this is without microcode _updates_, not without microcode. There is still the off chance that these CPUs ship with a backdoor inside the burnt microcode ROM that is patched out with an update. Unlike POWER and ARM we are solely dependent on the vendor being trustworthy enough to disclose issues in their errata document; outside of that, there is simply no feasible way to know for certain what bugs are lurking inside the CPU.
POWER and ARM parts can have microcode too. That's up to the implementation. I'm not sure how you can distinguish the difference. Because one posts an update vs others never indicating there is an update? Even if parts have no microcode, there's a possibility of backdoors baked into the silicon. In all situations one needs to trust the vendor.
I am definitely aware of that; the difference is that with POWER the microcode is open (though documentation is lacking), and most of the mainstream ARM implementations lack microcode.
In general our policy is to update the microcode for exactly the reason given above -- at some point you do have to trust the hardware created by the manufacturer, and microcode (traditional horizontal microcode, anyway) is highly unlikely to contain the types of security flaws (or even intentional backdoors) that have become so common in closed firmware binaries. No one* is going to take the time to create a meaningful microcode-based backdoor that can only target one CPU line when you can create a platform agnostic backdoor with remote access functionality using the boot or secondary engine firmware instead.
Just my $0.02. :-)
* No one outside of a high level state actor, at any rate!
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Timothy Pearson